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Thread: Can we talk about playing two hands? (50% of max)

  1. #1


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    Question Can we talk about playing two hands? (50% of max)

    Forgive me if this has been posted before but I haven't been able to find info on two hand optimizations other than the frequently mentioned 73% of max bet is equivalent etc...


    Let's assume we are allowed to flat bet on two hands playing heads up:

    With 1 hand on a 1-12u spread I get:

    ~$61/hr with ~18% ROR and ~19.3k N0







    With 2 hands on the same game with 1-6u spread I get:
    ~$73/hr ~17% ROR and ~15.5k N0






    Not only does this look better in most the numbers we care about but it would also generate less heat since my spread is much lower.
    I'm sure there is more to be considered if you only played two hands some of the time but that's not something I'm able to do with CVCX or I'd also experiment

    Is this an incorrect assumption? If not then why don't we generally play two hands all the time?
    Last edited by ajporrasm; 09-17-2021 at 04:55 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2


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    This must be wrong.

  3. #3
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Your parameters are different, ergo your results are not comparable. Actually, for such complicated comparisons, CVData is better.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  4. #4


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    Which parameters? The only things I changed were playing two hands and the bet spread being 1-6 as opposed to 1-12

    I didn’t create this sim either, this is the archived hi lo full indices

  5. #5
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Well, spread is one of the most important by far, and shouldn't be doubled because you split to two hands. Also, the spreads are far too high for back counting.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  6. #6


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    I appreciate your responses and respect your expertise so I just want to understand here since I’m far from an expert:

    The two hands are half the spread (per hand) of one hand,not the other way around since that’s what it sounds like you’re saying.

    2 hands 1-6u spread
    1 hand 1-12u spread

    Any chances you could get into more details why this may be wrong?

    I read through the theory of optimal betting by dr Harris but haven’t found much info on two hands other than the obvious frequent statement of 73%

    When is it optimal to play two hands, while heads up, when you can flat bet 1 unit minimum on two hands? Optimal in the sense that N0 decreases and win/hr increase without a drastic ROR increase in comparison to 1 hand play?

    Two hands to eat negative counts? Two hands for decreased (or increased?) variance at high counts?

  7. #7


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    Another parameter that should be adjusted is game speed. if you're playing an extra hand, there will be fewer rounds/hour.

  8. #8
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    73% does not refer to the spread. CVCX takes this into account automatically. It doesn't actually use the number 73%, it calculates the real number depending on settings. Spread when backcounting should be the same for both sims. Nearer to 4. Your forced minimum bet is high for your bankroll, limiting the ability to come up with a great result. Don't attempt to use rules of thumb like 73%. Let CVCX do the work.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  9. #9


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    Yes the 73% thing was moot and unnecessary to my statement, that’s my fault.

    I just want to know why it is incorrect, and when are the optimal times to play two hands or a point in the right direction for a source I would greatly appreciate.


    I’ll be home soon and can check, but I believe that even removing backcounting and a smaller minimum bet will still produce similar results with the archived hi low full indices sim that comes with CVCX

  10. #10
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Well yes, unless you keep the spread the same.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

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