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    push 22

    I've been thinking about playing a "Free Bet BJ" game that a casino in my area is offering. I'm not a math person, just a conservative rote rec AP, so I like the idea of almost never having more than 1 bet at risk. Looking through the archives of various sites, I haven't found much discussion about it lately, most of it is from 2012-2015. It intrigues me that Mohegan Sun CT spread the game in 2014 but shut it down after only 3 months! MY intuition is that the game is inferior to regular BJ because the dealer will break less often. Ramping up with the count and wonging out at -1 may not be as effective. Am I right? Why would MSCT discontinue the game so quickly if it is detrimental to card counters? According to WOO & DG, the HE for regular BJ in this casino is .38006 and for the FB game is .60. Is it possible to make the FB game more profitable than the regular game? Also, what about strategy variations, i18 etc? Can we use the same values in both games? Has anyone done any work in this area?

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    Free Bet, whatever form, is not .6 he. That push on dealer 22 is a killer. Dealer bust on 22 is an additional -6.91% house edge. Figure from WoV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dueceside View Post
    Is it possible to make the FB game more profitable than the regular game? Also, what about strategy variations, i18 etc? Can we use the same values in both games? Has anyone done any work in this area?
    I like these push 22 games because more detailed divisions of the hand value will usually make the game a lot more countable. Of course, this rule variation will also result in a lot of changes of basic strategy. My experience is that the player needs to treat the dealer upcard of 2 almost as a high card, meaning no splitting and doubling on a upcard of 2.

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    I've seen 20 post replies to a question of the exact disadvantage of splitting 7s against a 10, which is of absolutely no interest to us players, because we're never going to do it. But no one wants to analyze the push 22 game? Leads me to believe I might be onto something. Is it being discussed in the "green room"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dueceside View Post
    I've seen 20 post replies to a question of the exact disadvantage of splitting 7s against a 10, which is of absolutely no interest to us players, because we're never going to do it. But no one wants to analyze the push 22 game? Leads me to believe I might be onto something. Is it being discussed in the "green room"?
    Reread post 2, then have at ‘er.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Reread post 2, then have at ‘er.
    I noticed some problem with this forum. Some people do not post very much but keep stepping on no helpful to other people’s posts. If somebody is posting, it indicates the person at least understands the question and is willing to be engaged. I believe we should remove the “no” option on top of each post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I noticed some problem with this forum. Some people do not post very much but keep stepping on no helpful to other people’s posts. If somebody is posting, it indicates the person at least understands the question and is willing to be engaged. I believe we should remove the “no” option on top of each post.
    Are you related to dueceside?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Are you related to dueceside?
    I am trying to friend him. I like him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I am trying to friend him. I like him.
    Not surprised. Similar handle, similar content. Try BSST. It will improve your question asking technique.

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    I'm making assumption here. What do I know? Seems to me that a lot of games are shut down because know one plays them. Happens time and time again.
    "I think, therfore I can't play blackjack."
    Arnold Snyder, Blackbelt in Blackjack pg. 229 (2005)

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    The 'push22' game should be beatable with the rules at my location unless most of the advantage comes at negative counts. I wong out at -1 so this would increase the HE for my game. I wonder how the advantage breaks down from -1 to +6? Also, to give you armchair AP's something to get excited about, I us Hi-Opt 1 with asc and dsc side counts. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dueceside View Post
    The 'push22' game should be beatable with the rules at my location unless most of the advantage comes at negative counts. I wong out at -1 so this would increase the HE for my game. I wonder how the advantage breaks down from -1 to +6? Also, to give you armchair AP's something to get excited about, I us Hi-Opt 1 with asc and dsc side counts. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
    You are a Superman! I haven’t encountered anybody who claims their ability to use both ASC and DSC simultaneously. I am thinking it is countable mainly because you have more advanced skills!

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    Once you memorize the indices, it's easy to add other features to help ameliorate the boredom. Stiff vs. 10, stiff vs. 10, stiff vs. 10,etc. You get the picture.

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