See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Why are CSMs so expensive?

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Why are CSMs so expensive?

    This is something I'm curious about. I've read that casinos lease, rather than buy, CSMs. Companies selling them are all POA, but I found one site selling used ones for $10,000. It seems like they shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars to make, so why do they cost so much? Is it economies of scale with such a niche product?

  2. #2


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Grug64 View Post
    This is something I'm curious about. I've read that casinos lease, rather than buy, CSMs. Companies selling them are all POA, but I found one site selling used ones for $10,000. It seems like they shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars to make, so why do they cost so much? Is it economies of scale with such a niche product?
    Most likely: rent-seeking.

    If I remember correctly, there is a near-total monopoly on the shuffler market and the owner of the IP (in this case, the shuffler itself) can do/charge as they please.

    Naturally, casino managers are willing to pay/waste beau-coup bucks to make a few extra cents at their tables rather than train their staff to perform better shuffling, whatever that may be.

  3. #3


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    That makes sense, but it seems like casinos could make a lot more money over time from more hands per hour if they don't have to spend time shuffling.

  4. #4


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Grug64 View Post
    but I found one site selling used ones for $10,000
    Think about what it might be worth to an AP to know exactly how the machine works.

  5. #5


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    Think about what it might be worth to an AP to know exactly how the machine works.
    That thought hadn't occurred to me. Now there's an idea...

  6. #6


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    It comes down to rent and maintenance. Rent is expensive, but you also have to deal with fixing them. As well, the time and energy it takes to change them out, fix malfunctions, and get a tech out to work on them. If you have a large tribal casino with 30-40 tables, id think it could be just another expensive head ache to deal with. (no pun intended).

  7. #7


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Grug64 View Post
    That thought hadn't occurred to me. Now there's an idea...
    Do not cheer too early, as there are different models, different software versions, etc.

  8. #8


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    Think about what it might be worth to an AP to know exactly how the machine works.
    It would be worth absolutely nothing.

  9. #9
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    11,483
    Blog Entries
    59


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    CVData has code to sim them by special license and I know someone who had a magnificent run over a couple years. BUT, they have changed the operation since and the code is no longer useful. Doesn't mean that they are unbeatable. Two things to keep in mind. A game that casinos think is not beatable (and this also applies to 6:5) means low radar. Secondly, there are countries that cannot ban your play or spread based solely on the fact you win. This has been tested in courts.

    Having said that, I can't blame CBJN for dropping 6:5 as they need reporters and few reporters have any interest in such.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  10. #10


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by bjarg View Post
    It would be worth absolutely nothing.
    Perhaps not anymore. I don't know. As has been pointed out, the machines and the software evolve over time. I will say that I once had access to someone who had a one2six and that the software model I wrote did show that it was beatable in a surprising way.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Very expensive punctuation error, Don especially would appreciate
    By Freightman in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-12-2018, 11:17 AM
  2. Hollywood: Mental errors are expensive
    By Hollywood in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-28-2002, 12:57 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.