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Thread: How many cards are used each hand by average when playing Spanish 21?

  1. #14
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    In blackjack, the dealer peek is definitely favor to the player by about 0.2%.
    What? Where do you get your stats? So far, you have disagreed with all sources.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    What? Where do you get your stats? So far, you have disagreed with all sources.
    I just calculated the peek rule for blackjack 8-deck stand-17. The correct number is 0.1% to the favor of the player. What I said earlier 0.2% is wrong. I can not calculate this for Spanish 21 though.

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Are you sure about this: the dealer peek rule is favor to the dealer? In blackjack, the dealer peek is definitely favor to the player by about 0.2%. That is a lot. Spanish 21 bonus is so rare and I just think it does not have very much effect at all.
    Two shoe games, identical rules, one NHC, the other HC

    Can you reason why HC gives a slightly higher to the player.
    Now, playing heads up with a fast dealer - can you reason why I prefer NHC

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Are you sure about this: the dealer peek rule is favor to the dealer? In blackjack, the dealer peek is definitely favor to the player by about 0.2%. That is a lot. Spanish 21 bonus is so rare and I just think it does not have very much effect at all.
    Two shoe games, identical rules, one NHC, the other HC

    Can you reason why HC gives a slightly higher to the player.
    Now, playing heads up with a fast dealer - can you reason why I prefer NHC

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Two shoe games, identical rules, one NHC, the other HC

    Can you reason why HC gives a slightly higher to the player.
    Now, playing heads up with a fast dealer - can you reason why I prefer NHC
    Let me give you my understanding. The main reason is when the dealer has a blackjack in NHC games, she can trick you to put more money on the felt. She can not trick you in HC games. Maybe there are other reasons.

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Let me give you my understanding. The main reason is when the dealer has a blackjack in NHC games, she can trick you to put more money on the felt. She can not trick you in HC games. Maybe there are other reasons.
    In Spanish 21 game, you get pay immediately when you get 21 points(Autowin !), so it does not matter if later dealer have PONTOON(after she reveal her hole card) or not ! Meaning for ALL 21 vs PONTOON, you always win(in normal blackjack, you always lose!) in a Spanish 21 no hole card game, so No hole card rule in Spanish 21 is favor to the player.
    Last edited by James989; 07-18-2021 at 09:14 PM.

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    This is even more specific, but it seems you are talking about the player’s hands, not the dealer’s hand? Do dealers need more cards to complete their hands, or players?
    On another note, I calculated the average dealer hand value for Spanish 21 using an infinite deck model and found it is slightly smaller (4th decimal place) than that of Blackjack, but the bust rate in Spanish 21 is a lot smaller. Can you also help confirm these numbers.
    The 2.9 figure is an average of both the dealer and player hands. Whether or not a dealer needs more cards to complete a hand depends on the player's playing style and other factors. Also, understand that infinite deck models are for research purposes only, you don't ever play against an infinite deck in a casino so when asking very specific questions you need to detail the number of decks, rules and playing conditions that apply to that particular situation. The bust rate for Spanish 21 is up card dependent but can be averaged and if so it is definitely not a lot smaller than Blackjack.
    Casino Enemy No.1

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Let me give you my understanding. The main reason is when the dealer has a blackjack in NHC games, she can trick you to put more money on the felt. She can not trick you in HC games. Maybe there are other reasons.
    Naturally, your “understanding” is wrong. Further, I can’t help but wonder how a dealer can trick you into putting out more money in a NHC game.

    Now - THINK - REASON - ANALYZE
    How do HC player. and NHC games differentiate. Why do those differences create a larger advantage for the
    HC player. Why does Freightman prefer an NHC game heads up with a fast dealer.

    Again - THINK - REASON - ANALYZE

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by James989 View Post
    In Spanish 21 game, you get pay immediately when you get 21 points(Autowin !), so it does not matter if later dealer have PONTOON(after she reveal her hole card) or not ! Meaning for ALL 21 vs PONTOON, you always win(in normal blackjack, you always lose!) in a Spanish 21 no hole card game, so No hole card rule in Spanish 21 is favor to the player.
    I looked up about this part online and discovered that you are right. This is very interesting because the advantageous amount depends a lot on the rule details.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Naturally, your “understanding” is wrong. Further, I can’t help but wonder how a dealer can trick you into putting out more money in a NHC game.

    Now - THINK - REASON - ANALYZE
    How do HC player. and NHC games differentiate. Why do those differences create a larger advantage for the
    HC player. Why does Freightman prefer an NHC game heads up with a fast dealer.

    Again - THINK - REASON - ANALYZE
    If you have a two-card hand of 6, 5 and the dealer has an upcard of 10, and you doubled down to put more money on the felt, but the dealer gets a Blackjack later in NHC games, and finally you lost both your double down and original bet. This is what I mean a dealer can trick you into putting out more money in a NHC game.

    “Why does Freightman prefer an NHC game heads up with a fast dealer.” I have noticed you saying this many times, but haven’t been able to apprehend why.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethebuilder View Post
    The 2.9 figure is an average of both the dealer and player hands. Whether or not a dealer needs more cards to complete a hand depends on the player's playing style and other factors. Also, understand that infinite deck models are for research purposes only, you don't ever play against an infinite deck in a casino so when asking very specific questions you need to detail the number of decks, rules and playing conditions that apply to that particular situation. The bust rate for Spanish 21 is up card dependent but can be averaged and if so it is definitely not a lot smaller than Blackjack.
    The bust rate is about 0.28 in blackjack but 0.27 in Spanish 21. This is what I mean by a lot. The average hand values in these two games are very close.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    THINK - REASON - ANALYZE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbgTUwUP-ew

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Took me awhile to figure out the dryness of your intent Quite funny
    I fear your eloquent effort for the masses will remain just that - an effort

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