# Thread: MGP CA: DD S17 DAS LS - 16 vs 9

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Originally Posted by davethebuilder
2C strategies play the first 2 card hands based on their composition, and all 3 or more cards based solely on
their total
. The same strategy is used after splits – i.e. all two card post-split hands use their pre-split strategy
and all 3 or more card hands are played based on their totals.
The part in bold above is unexpected to me and probably explains what we are seeing. Thanks for the pointer. It might have been more clear if it was called "2+ card strategy" or something like that.

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I can see some clever people on this thread so may I ask something irrelevant to this thread? Griffin's values for first cards show a ten being 13% player advantage and 17% dealer advantage. How can I determine the average advantage/disadvantage of a ten as a hit card for the player and for the dealer?
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by 2Bornot2B
I can see some clever people on this thread so may I ask something irrelevant to this thread? Griffin's values for first cards show a ten being 13% player advantage and 17% dealer advantage. How can I determine the average advantage/disadvantage of a ten as a hit card for the player and for the dealer?
Thank you.
Let me try. As a hit card, a ten is 13% player advantage and 17% dealer advantage too. You just assume your first card is a player hole card or a hit card by average.

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Originally Posted by aceside
Let me try. As a hit card, a ten is 13% player advantage and 17% dealer advantage too. You just assume your first card is a player hole card or a hit card by average.

Thanks for trying but I don't think you understand my question. Please read my post again.

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Originally Posted by Gronbog
Using MGP's CA to generate the total dependent strategy for DD S17 DAS LS, I get the following which matches the basic strategy generated by the basic strategy engine at

https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackj...rr=ls&peek=yes

Attachment 4570

However, when I click on the cell for 16 vs 9 to see the EVs, the EV of surrender is clearly the best. Why does the strategy not recommend surrender for this hand?

Attachment 4571

I ask because, when generating the strategy for this hand by simulation using my own software, I get similar EVs and so my software does recommend surrender for this hand.

A similar situation exists for A,6 vs 2 where doubling has the best EV according to both MGP and my software, yet the strategy displayed by MGP is to hit.

What am I missing?
I just tried this program myself and got the same result as yours. So the 16 vs 9 basic strategy should be hit. Has anybody answered your question?

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Originally Posted by 2Bornot2B
Thanks for trying but I don't think you understand my question. Please read my post again.
I totally understand your question. Basics ...

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Originally Posted by aceside
I totally understand your question. Basics ...
Dont think you do. Hypothesize as the first visible dealer card. Player has plus EV when his first card is a 10. Player has minus EV when his first card is a 6. Same scenario, different edges, same principle for dealer.

Comprende?

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Originally Posted by 2Bornot2B
I can see some clever people on this thread so may I ask something irrelevant to this thread? Griffin's values for first cards show a ten being 13% player advantage and 17% dealer advantage. How can I determine the average advantage/disadvantage of a ten as a hit card for the player and for the dealer?
Thank you.
I wrote some software a while back that can compute partial player/dealer hands using total dependent basic strategy.

2 decks, s17, DAS, split once
Player 10 first card; EV = +14.3972%
Player xx v dealer 10; EV = -17.1123%
Player 10 first card v dealer 10; EV = -0.6788%

T_.jpg_T.jpgT_T.jpg

k_c

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Originally Posted by k_c
I wrote some software a while back that can compute partial player/dealer hands using total dependent basic strategy.

2 decks, s17, DAS, split once
Player 10 first card; EV = +14.3972%
Player xx v dealer 10; EV = -17.1123%
Player 10 first card v dealer 10; EV = -0.6788%

T_.jpg_T.jpgT_T.jpg

k_c

Thank you KC. Very interesting info. Can your software tell me how much of the true count advantage (0.5%) of an extra ten is due to the extra ten being first card or the hit card ?

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What is a hit card? I have never heard about the term "hit card' in this forum.
Please state your question in a way so that most people can understand.

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