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Thread: Doubling on a Natural?

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    Doubling on a Natural?

    Hi all,

    I was reading a recent issue of CBJN and saw a note for a specific casino that approval from pit critters was needed to split Xs or double on a natural. Understanding why one may choose to split Xs under certain circumstances, I've been scratching my head re why - outside of tournament play or more advanced AP techniques e.g., hole carding - anyone would double on a natural. As an academic exercise, it would seem ill-advised even on 6:5 games with an extremely high count.

    What am I missing?

    I have reviewed this thread and consensus seems to be that it only makes sense in tournament play.
    Last edited by Papa Gee; 05-18-2021 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    So, you can say double on a natural and be told it needs to be approved -- say never mind -- and look like an idiot. I like that.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Gee View Post
    Hi all,

    I was reading a recent issue of CBJN and saw a note for a specific casino that approval from pit critters was needed to split Xs or double on a natural. Understanding why one may choose to split Xs under certain circumstances, I've been scratching my head re why - outside of tournament play or more advanced AP techniques e.g., hole carding - anyone would double on a natural. As an academic exercise, it would seem ill-advised even on 6:5 games with an extremely high count.

    What am I missing?

    I have reviewed this thread and consensus seems to be that it only makes sense in tournament play.
    You’re missing nothing on doubling a natural. It’s a dumb play. Some value in tournament play, but that’s not my forte. Splitting 10’s v 4,5,6 is an extremely valuable play against the proper true counts. It’s also a dead giveaway. Only very bad and very good players do it. Most very good longevity players bypass that giveaway play, which is a fast way out the door.

    Should add that many stores don’t allow doubling on a natural, but they should.

  4. #4
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    And, very high variance in ten splits. It requires a higher index than those published.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    So, you can say double on a natural and be told it needs to be approved -- say never mind -- and look like an idiot. I like that.
    Hadn't even considered it as a cover play. "Book says to double 11s"

    Thanks Norm - always one step ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    You’re missing nothing on doubling a natural. It’s a dumb play. Some value in tournament play, but that’s not my forte. Splitting 10’s v 4,5,6 is an extremely valuable play against the proper true counts. It’s also a dead giveaway. Only very bad and very good players do it. Most very good longevity players bypass that giveaway play, which is a fast way out the door.

    Should add that many stores don’t allow doubling on a natural, but they should.
    The bad ones usually do it with minimum bets. The goods ones with large bets. The 'great' ones mix it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    And, very high variance in ten splits. It requires a higher index than those published.
    Risk Averse, if you’re going to do it

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShipTheCookies View Post
    The bad ones usually do it with minimum bets. The goods ones with large bets. The 'great' ones mix it up.
    Nice point, if you’re going to do it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member dalmatian's Avatar
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    Risk averse indices are very high for this 10s splitting. So high that it is probably risk averse to simply never do it in the first place.

  10. #10
    Senior Member dalmatian's Avatar
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    BTW, if you do end up splitting 10s and receive a "soft 21" then there is an index for doubling, right?! If I'm not mistaken Yoshi om his first GWAE interview said this was his favorite play ti make. I can honestly say I concur.

    What is the index for this play? The number +8 for Hi Low is in my mind for some reason but I have never found this in an index chart in any book......

    Dalmatian

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