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Thread: How was your first counting experience?

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I can barely beat some games, but only when playing solo. If I play with two or more other players, I cannot beat these games anymore. What is the math behind multiple-player tables?
    This isn't rocket science. Read the respected texts (such as Wong's Prof BJ and Don's BJA3) and that's all you need to know. No what ifs involved. You keep trying to reinvent the wheel, making things so much more complex than they really are, but your version is never round.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    This isn't rocket science. Read the respected texts (such as Wong's Prof BJ and Don's BJA3) and that's all you need to know. No what ifs involved. You keep trying to reinvent the wheel, making things so much more complex than they really are, but your version is never round.
    News report says that the New York governor Cuomo is set to make $5 million from selling his book of American Crisis about covid-19. This news is encouraging to me as I am thinking to publish a new blackjack book on my inventions, but I am not sure how much money I can harvest from this book.

  3. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    News report says that the New York governor Cuomo is set to make $5 million from selling his book of American Crisis about covid-19. This news is encouraging to me as I am thinking to publish a new blackjack book on my inventions, but I am not sure how much money I can harvest from this book.
    Most likely like this guy.


  4. #30


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    This news is encouraging to me as I am thinking to publish a new blackjack book on my inventions, but I am not sure how much money I can harvest from this book.
    Perhaps the experience of my brother in law may be of value. His book - I made $100.00 in Real Estate - yielded enough to buy a small brick of halvah. I believe he is working on a second blockbuster - Conspiracies for Dummies.

  5. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBurger View Post
    Hey y'all, just felt like sharing my experience as a new counter who's been getting crushed so far.

    Let me also preface this by saying I've put in my time (200+ hours at a conservative estimate) off the felt and I'm confident I'm playing a winning game. This also isn't a whining post.

    Over the last year I've been saving up a bankroll of $10,000 (replenishable) to take a shot at counting. So far it hasn't quite gone as planned:

    Session 1: -$443 (8 hours)
    Session 2: -$210 (3 hours)
    Session 3: -$687.50 (4 hours)
    Session 4: -$1557.50 (1.5 hours)

    Overall: -$2898 (16.5 hours)

    I made a couple mistakes in my first session (Nobody told me that when you double they can place the card face down, and I forgot to account for it a couple times lol) but I've played pretty on point aside from that. I spread 1:20 on a $10 minimum 6D H17 DAS RSA NS game and 1:10 on a $15 minimum DD H17 DAS RSA NS game, both with amazing penetration. I use HiLo, half deck estimations (quarter for DD), and the deviations as found on the BJA app. That leaves me with an average RoR of something around 10% which I'm willing to stomach for higher EV, and unfortunately I'm trending towards busto. I went into this accepting that I may well lose every dime in my bankroll, so weirdly I'm at peace with my losses. The only thing that frustrates me is that I may not be able to play anymore for a while if I were to lose my whole bankroll. Obviously I'm sure more experienced counters have gone on much larger and longer downswings, but it's been quite the inaugural experience. If only my real bankroll was looking like my BJA app bankroll

    How were your first experiences counting?
    Sorry for the streak of bad luck. When I recently restarted (after a several year hiatus) I had a more normal experience out of the gate.

    At the moment I am in an odd losing streak the past 4 sessions. Odd because I have done exceptionally well on negative count hands and poorly on positive count hands. So for four sessions straight I would have been better off flat betting.

    I don't let this affect me. I know that it would be odd if weird streaks didn't happen.

  6. #32


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    Went for my fifth session (-$300) and received my first pseudo-backoff. Definitely learned a valuable lesson, and got a fun story to go along with it:

    After playing for about 2 hours on a DD game, an older dealer came in and very deliberately said, "let's make some money TOGETHER!" I didn't think anything of it at the time because it seems like a pretty standard thing to say, but I soon came to realize this was the first of quite a few hints. He gives me great pen and towards the end of the first couple decks, he says "you know you're being a little too obvious, right?" I was caught completely offguard and said something along the lines of "Hey I'm in the hole $3000, I'm out after this round." But he quickly gave me a new deck to cut when the deck ended, and he stuck the cut card WAY in the back. I let greed get the best of me so I said, "alright, one more." We get about halfway through again, the count gets good, and I put out a max bet. He pauses, grabs the discard pile, and says "you know I could break it right here." I completely misinterpreted this as a hint to not bet as much - I said "I can bet a little less," pulled back some money, still determined to ride the good penetration and bounce. Then he repeated himself: "Or I could just break it here." I didn't respond, he paused a little longer, dealt out the rest of the decks (I made back almost all my losses on the session here), and I asked him to color me up. As he was coloring me up, he said "word of advice, try to keep the dealers on your side next time." It finally clicked at that moment, he was gonna let me keep playing and giving me insane pen in exchange for tips. Tipping was never a part of my strategy going in so it didn't even occur to me at the time! Looking back it feels pretty obvious, although I think with that much heat it was probably good I left when I did.

    Regardless, a good lesson about keeping the dealers on your side.

  7. #33


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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBurger View Post
    Went for my fifth session (-$300) and received my first pseudo-backoff. Definitely learned a valuable lesson, and got a fun story to go along with it:

    After playing for about 2 hours on a DD game, an older dealer came in and very deliberately said, "let's make some money TOGETHER!" I didn't think anything of it at the time because it seems like a pretty standard thing to say, but I soon came to realize this was the first of quite a few hints. He gives me great pen and towards the end of the first couple decks, he says "you know you're being a little too obvious, right?" I was caught completely offguard and said something along the lines of "Hey I'm in the hole $3000, I'm out after this round." But he quickly gave me a new deck to cut when the deck ended, and he stuck the cut card WAY in the back. I let greed get the best of me so I said, "alright, one more." We get about halfway through again, the count gets good, and I put out a max bet. He pauses, grabs the discard pile, and says "you know I could break it right here." I completely misinterpreted this as a hint to not bet as much - I said "I can bet a little less," pulled back some money, still determined to ride the good penetration and bounce. Then he repeated himself: "Or I could just break it here." I didn't respond, he paused a little longer, dealt out the rest of the decks (I made back almost all my losses on the session here), and I asked him to color me up. As he was coloring me up, he said "word of advice, try to keep the dealers on your side next time." It finally clicked at that moment, he was gonna let me keep playing and giving me insane pen in exchange for tips. Tipping was never a part of my strategy going in so it didn't even occur to me at the time! Looking back it feels pretty obvious, although I think with that much heat it was probably good I left when I did.

    Regardless, a good lesson about keeping the dealers on your side.
    You were being toke hustled. He wanted you to put out a bet for him. He didn't care how much you bet or won as long as he got his.

  8. #34
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6decker View Post
    You were being toke hustled. He wanted you to put out a bet for him. He didn't care how much you bet or won as long as he got his.
    I know APs that were robbed in the parking lot because they didn't take care of their dealers. They can and will sick their goons upon you for being a dick! Ask me how I know.
    Vincit Qui Patitur

  9. #35
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    What country? Seriously, how long could this go on at a casino?
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  10. #36


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    What country? Seriously, how long could this go on at a casino?
    Happened at a small casino in USA West. It was definitely super uncomfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    I know APs that were robbed in the parking lot because they didn't take care of their dealers. They can and will sick their goons upon you for being a dick! Ask me how I know.
    Wow, that's scary and really good to know. The parking lot at this place doesn't feel so safe and this dealer honestly felt pretty threatening. I'll keep this in mind in the future.
    Where did this occur?

  11. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBurger View Post
    After playing for about 2 hours on a DD game, an older dealer came in and very deliberately said, "let's make some money TOGETHER!" I didn't think anything of it at the time because it seems like a pretty standard thing to say, but I soon came to realize this was the first of quite a few hints.
    He was pretty obvious about it, wasn't he? Missed opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    I know APs that were robbed in the parking lot because they didn't take care of their dealers. They can and will sick their goons upon you for being a dick! Ask me how I know.
    How do you know that's why he got robbed? I know an AP who also got robbed but that's because he was playing late at night, was not discrete enough with his stack of Benjamins, and had his rental car parked too far from the entrance (you should have an Uber pick you up at the valet circle if possible).

    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    One of my dearest friends, and one of the most successful counters I knew, lost the first ten sessions he played! Needless to say, things turned, and he never looked back. Hang in there and trust the math.

    Don
    I lost in my first year but was close to breaking even. I identified my mistakes and what went wrong during most of my losing sessions and fixed everything. I now have something which works and am happy. But it took me some time to adjust and get it going like clockwork.

    Trust the math, but also learn to trust yourself. Learn to trust your counting, your deck estimation, your bankroll management, etc...

    My first sessions? I actually did not count right away. I learned perfect basic strategy and learned to raise when lots of small cards showed up. That worked for my first 4 sessions, of course red chips. Started to count after that, was all over the place, losing count, screwing my deck estimation, never deviating from basic strategy, playing poor conditions, etc... All I had to do was concentrate and insist and only decided to graduate to green chips once I was confident I had a winning game.
    Last edited by DatabaseGuy; 05-25-2021 at 12:25 PM.

  12. #38


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    I lost in my first year but was close to breaking even. I identified my mistakes and what went wrong during most of my losing sessions and fixed everything. I now have something which works and am happy. But it took me some time to adjust and get it going like clockwork.

    Trust the math, but also learn to trust yourself. Learn to trust your counting, your deck estimation, your bankroll management, etc...

    My first sessions? I actually did not count right away. I learned perfect basic strategy and learned to raise when lots of small cards showed up. That worked for my first 4 sessions, of course red chips. Started to count after that, was all over the place, losing count, screwing my deck estimation, never deviating from basic strategy, playing poor conditions, etc... All I had to do was concentrate and insist and only decided to graduate to green chips once I was confident I had a winning game.[/QUOTE]


    That's basically how I got into it. I learned the concept of counting and had some luck in guessing when bigger cards came out through simple observation. I liked playing so figured I might as well know as much as possible if I'm putting my money out there no matter how small the amount. The start of actually counting was definitely a wreck. I'd make a handful of perfect strategy mistakes, not knowing any deviation plays, losing the count, not having a ramp up strategy, being too cautious about drawing attention.. I got better at all those things but it was a lot of practice. Even with experience, putting out big bets and then following through with a split/double down etc had my hands shaking a bit when betting and some of those excruciating losses when the dealer draws out a 21 have left me furious, cursing and really losing my composure. You can know everything you need to know in preparation but you don't know how you'll react to a situation until you're in it. Each experience, the good and the bad will help you moving forward.

  13. #39


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    This will show how ancient I am, but mine relates to when PCs were first entering the office. I showed up one morning and found one on my desk; my boss came out and said I was going to learn to use it so I could teach everyone else. I told my family about my "good luck" and one of my brothers sent me a disk (back when they really were floppy and 5.25") with some exercises on it to learn various skills. Also on it were some games, one of which was a blackjack tutorial. I didn't think much of it since at that point I'd never even set foot in a casino, but then about a week later I found a book on a in shelf where everyone in the office would put stuff they didn't want but thought other people might like that purported to teach one to count. I read it, but it turned out to be just a tease for a more "advanced" system the authors would sell for a lot more money than a book. I thought the coincidence of the game and the book showing up so close together was a bit odd so I started practicing counting skills during lunch and after work.

    After a few months, I felt I was doing well enough to give it a shot for real, so took a weekend bus day-trip to Atlantic City. That trip didn't end up very well but I saw glimmers of what I could do well. I found a book shop there and loaded up on a few volumes on gaming money management and one on comparing the strengths and weaknesses of various counting systems. It didn't describe them in detail, but gave their characteristics. I recognized the one in the book I'd first found on the trading shelf and this new book also gave the characteristics on the advanced system the authors touted.

    I reprogrammed the practice game with the new counts and strategies I thought was likely in the advanced system and started practicing that in the same way. A couple of months later I headed back to AC and had a reasonably good day.

    I started heading down to AC a weekend or two a month, slowly building up my bankroll.

    In the intervening years, I've only had 3 years where I had a loss on the year. This past year, without that income, I realized how much I'd come to depend on it for my incidentals and vacation budgets. Glad to be back "at work".

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