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Thread: Does the house worry about card-counters who are losing?

  1. #1


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    Does the house worry about card-counters who are losing?

    Lets say...that you're obviously counting - with no effort to cover and you've got an aggressive spread...

    In your experience, does the casino care if you're card-counting as long as your down?

  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Depends on the casino. An example of casino incompetence is that some will ban counters who are not competent.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by tal32bur View Post
    Lets say...that you're obviously counting - with no effort to cover and you've got an aggressive spread...

    In your experience, does the casino care if you're card-counting as long as your down?
    Naturally, it varies from one place to the other. But, it shouldn't make a difference if you're winning or losing. If you're perceived as a threat to the casino, you're occupying a seat that could potentially go to someone who is going to lose over the long run. They have no reason to want you to continue playing.

    Don

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    I have been backed off from a session that I was loosing miserably. I didn't realize someone else was slaving off of my spread, and doing extremely well. But then, I'm no "Norm".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tal32bur View Post
    Lets say...that you're obviously counting - with no effort to cover and you've got an aggressive spread...

    In your experience, does the casino care if you're card-counting as long as your down?
    You are really putting the cart before the horse. If I remember correctly, one of the greatest blackjack counters, Peter Griffin, was probably not winning in casinos at all. That was even when he had access to plenty of single deck and double deck games. Nowadays, there are no that many Grifins left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Daniels View Post
    I have been backed off from a session that I was loosing miserably. I didn't realize someone else was slaving off of my spread, and doing extremely well. But then, I'm no "Norm".
    That really demonstrated the incompetence of the casino. One time when I was exiting a casino after playing blackjack, I over heard these dealers were talking to each other saying that guy was a counter but he was losing. There is no reason for a casino to ban losers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    ... I over heard these dealers were talking to each other saying that guy was a counter ...
    I don't remember what specifically was said, but I overheard a couple of dealers talking about "a counter" and the ways they could tell -- I remember thinking it was pretty comical what they thought were "sure signs" someone was counting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    That really demonstrated the incompetence of the casino. One time when I was exiting a casino after playing blackjack, I over heard these dealers were talking to each other saying that guy was a counter but he was losing. There is no reason for a casino to ban losers.
    I think you got the backwards. Sharp casinos will ban counters (assuming competent counters) while they are losing because they understand that short term results are just variance and allowing them to play is long term -ev. Not so sharp casinos will watch counter to see if they are winning or losing and decide accordingly.

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    Senior Member dalmatian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    If I remember correctly, one of the greatest blackjack counters, Peter Griffin, was probably not winning in casinos at all.
    I remember reading that too. Do you think it was because he didnt play enough? I'm borderline mentally retarded and I'm a lifetime winning player on the crap games we have today. With the quality games back then I'm pretty sure N0 is like 40 hours. How could someone playing an advanced count (and most likely incorporating side counts as well) not be a winning player on a game with an N0 of 40 or probably even less .......

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatian View Post
    I remember reading that too. Do you think it was because he didnt play enough? I'm borderline mentally retarded and I'm a lifetime winning player on the crap games we have today. With the quality games back then I'm pretty sure N0 is like 40 hours. How could someone playing an advanced count (and most likely incorporating side counts as well) not be a winning player on a game with an N0 of 40 or probably even less .......
    That just means Griffin was not totally confident in his own math and theory about blackjack. I guess he was concerned about too many bugs in his simulation programs. Another reason I can speculate is that these earlier computers were not powerful enough to simulate the complexity of these games. BTW, what is N0? What is N0 for a 8 deck game as opposed to a 6 deck game? I just learn everything from talking to experts.

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