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Thread: Can you believe this Court case? I wish Vegas players had tried it long ago

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    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Can you believe this Court case? I wish Vegas players had tried it long ago

    Maybe Norm can post it in the AP News section. But here is to hoping they prevail. I can't believe a federal court ruled in the players' favor while the lower state Court did not. Maybe Frank has some insight or knowledge? If there was a recent thread, I didn't see it.

    https://www.courthousenews.com/blackjack-rules-alarm-massachusetts-high-court-im-not-james-bond/

    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

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    [QUOTE=MJGolf;297010]Maybe Norm can post it in the AP News section. But here is to hoping they prevail. I can't believe a federal court ruled in the players' favor while the lower state Court did not. Maybe Frank has some insight or knowledge? If there was a recent thread, I didn't see it.

    "But they also suggest the possibility that a casino can pay 6:5 odds without playing the 6:5 variation, which is what was done by the Encore casino near Boston and the MGM casino in Springfield."

    Maybe someone can explain this to me. I speak English, so can't understand what it means.

    Don

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    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Don, based upon the rules supposedly on the game..........I think they said over 13 pages.........doubt they could explain it to the court either.........LOL
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "But they also suggest the possibility that a casino can pay 6:5 odds without playing the 6:5 variation, which is what was done by the Encore casino near Boston and the MGM casino in Springfield."

    Maybe someone can explain this to me. I speak English, so can't understand what it means.

    Don
    Don,

    The Massachusetts Gaming Commission changed its blackjack rules on October 8, 2020, to allow casinos to pay 6:5 on any BJ table. Prior to that, the rules stated that the 6:5 payout could be used ONLY for SD and DD pitch games, which the rules called the "6 to 5 blackjack variation". Below is a link to the 2/11/19 rules, which have now been superseded by the 10/8/20 rules:

    https://massgaming.com/wp-content/up...ck-2-11-19.pdf

    So the court case revolves around the question of whether the casinos were violating the MGC rules by paying 6:5 on non-pitch tables prior to October 8, 2020... Spoiler alert: yes, they were in violation ;-)

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

    P.S. the 10/8/20 rules are here:

    https://massgaming.com/wp-content/up...10-08-2020.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Hand View Post
    Don,

    The Massachusetts Gaming Commission changed its blackjack rules on October 8, 2020, to allow casinos to pay 6:5 on any BJ table. Prior to that, the rules stated that the 6:5 payout could be used ONLY for SD and DD pitch games, which the rules called the "6 to 5 blackjack variation". Below is a link to the 2/11/19 rules, which have now been superseded by the 10/8/20 rules:

    https://massgaming.com/wp-content/up...ck-2-11-19.pdf

    So the court case revolves around the question of whether the casinos were violating the MGC rules by paying 6:5 on non-pitch tables prior to October 8, 2020... Spoiler alert: yes, they were in violation ;-)

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

    P.S. the 10/8/20 rules are here:

    https://massgaming.com/wp-content/up...10-08-2020.pdf

    I will start by stating that i didnt read the court case but infer from the posts that the state gaming authority was found to be in violation of its process to amend its rules by allowing the casino to spread a 6/5 shoe game that was not permitted by the regulation prior to the change. So in essence that court says you can't offer that game until you change the law or regulation by following the correct change process, which likely involves an opportunity for public comment. Simple remedy for the casino is to petition for a rule change which the board may or may not approve following completion of the rule change process. A win in a battle per se but the war is far from over.

    On a personal note have made some of my best bank on 6/5 shoe games. Actually prefer 6/5 for some activities as there tends to be less scrutiny - of course once the table starts bleeding chips the heat comes down.

    Cohiba
    Last edited by Cohiba; 04-11-2021 at 06:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohiba View Post
    On a personal note have made some of my best bank on 6/5 shoe games. Actually prefer 6/5 for some activities as there tends to be less scrutiny - of course once the table starts bleeding chips the heat comes down.
    This is interesting. I played in Massachusetts a lot but always skipped 6:5 games. The only chance I found for 6:5 was on a cruise ship where they dealt a single deck shoe to the very last five cards. How do you count these 6:5 games? I guess you probably need to make the aces neutral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    How do you count these 6:5 games?
    While I'm not the OP, you can be almost certain what he said has nothing to do with counting. And don't expect him to expound on his methods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    This is interesting. I played in Massachusetts a lot but always skipped 6:5 games. The only chance I found for 6:5 was on a cruise ship where they dealt a single deck shoe to the very last five cards. How do you count these 6:5 games? I guess you probably need to make the aces neutral.

    WRT to the plays I agree the input by 21forme. If you can indulge me a ? for clarification - i am not clear what you meant by the term "single deck shoe"....were single decks dealt from a shoe or was it just a typo in your post?

    Thanks

    Cohiba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohiba View Post
    i am not clear what you meant by the term "single deck shoe"....were single decks dealt from a shoe or was it just a typo in your post?
    It was on a Royal Caribbean cruise, where they dealt a single deck pitch game of 6:5 blackjack from the hand of the dealer. It was not a shoe.

  10. #10
    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Actually guys, due to Covid, you will see games in Vegas/some other locales being dealt more from a shoe that typically were "hand dealt" games. Both DD and Single deck. While it slows the game down a bit, I actually like it better as you get to see all the cards face up.
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

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