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Thread: Illustrious 18 - indexes

  1. #92
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    Hi, BJGenius007, Can you post your hilo indices for double deck with surrendering?

  2. #93


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    The basic strategy for the hand 9 vs 2 is double down, but the HiLo index is +1. Can anybody help explain this discrepancy?
    BS for 9 vs. 2 is double for one and two decks, but not for four, six, or eight decks. The Hi-Lo index is +1, so when you hold a two-card 9 vs. dealer's 2, the RC is either +3 or +2. In either case, for SD or DD, the
    TC >=+1, and so you double. Once you divide RC by 4, 6, or 8, the TC <+1, so you hit.

    While the above is true, as Norm mentions, BS has nothing to do with a TC of zero. You realize that, with the above hand, off the top of a single deck, the TC could be +3 as you make your BS play.

    Don

  3. #94


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Hi, BJGenius007, Can you post your hilo indices for double deck with surrendering?
    I have never played H17 game since 1990's, so I don't have indexes for 16/15/14 vs A.

    I use AccuZen, an multiple parameters Zen with three counts (main Zen, ace, 8/9). Converting Level 1 AccuZen to HiLo, they should have very similar indexes you can use.

    16 v T: -2.5
    15 v T: 0
    14 v T: 2.5
    16 v 9: -0.5
    15 v 9: 2
    14 v 9: 4.5
    16 v 8: 4.5
    15 v 8: 6
    14 v 8: 9
    13 v T: 6
    12 v T: 10.5

    The above indexes are applied to both S17 and H17 multiple deck games. AP using these indexes have 55% to 65% of chance to be right when ace and 8/9 distribution are normal. Level 2 AP (AccuZen Player) will learn a new index for the condition that the remaining shoe are 8/9 poor. That covers the rest 17.5% to 22.5%. Level 3 AP will learn another nex index for the condition that the remaining shoe are 8/9 rich. That covers the last 17.5% to 22.5%. My AccuZen has 10 levels. This is not related to the "level" on level 1, level 2 counting systems.

    If you can find S17 game, the remaining indexes that can only apply to S17 are:
    16 v A: -1.5
    15 v A: 1.5
    14 v A: 5

    Note these indexes to be used by Hi Lo users using formula TC = RC / # of remain deck. (# of remaining deck initial value is 2 then gradually drop to 1.5, 1.25, 1 etc)
    Last edited by BJGenius007; 10-25-2021 at 04:59 PM.

  4. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    BS for 9 vs. 2 is double for one and two decks, but not for four, six, or eight decks. The Hi-Lo index is +1, so when you hold a two-card 9 vs. dealer's 2, the RC is either +3 or +2. In either case, for SD or DD, the
    TC >=+1, and so you double. Once you divide RC by 4, 6, or 8, the TC <+1, so you hit.
    This explains a lot! Based on your theory, I will hit a hand of 4,5 vs dealer's 2 when TC=0 in mid-shoe when I count a double-deck shoe, but will double down this hand anywhere in a shoe when I don't count cards.

    This issue is also related to the TC difference before and after the hand was dealt.

  5. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    I use AccuZen, an multiple parameters Zen with three counts (main Zen, ace, 8/9). Converting Level 1 AccuZen to HiLo, they should have very similar indexes you can use.
    I know nothing about AccuZen. I thought you are using HiLo, but your indices match to mine very well. For 6-decks, my HiLo surrender indices are:
    16 v T: -3
    15 v T: -0
    7,7 v T: +3
    14 v T: +4

    16 v 9: -0
    15 v 9: +2
    7,7 v9: +5
    16 v 8: +5
    15 v A: -1
    7,7 v A: +3
    14 v A: +4
    These indices have been profitable for me for 6-decks so far, but I am not sure if they are still good for 2-decks H-17 games. Can anybody verify this?
    Last edited by aceside; 10-26-2021 at 12:44 PM.

  6. #97


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I know nothing about AccuZen.
    AccuZen is just an expansion of Zen. Level 1 AccuZen = Zen. Each level up just makes Zen counting system more accurate. On the bottom level, the playing accuracy is 55% to 65% depending on the penetration.

  7. #98


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Based on your theory, I will hit a hand of 4,5 vs dealer's 2 when TC=0 in mid-shoe when I count a double-deck shoe, but will double down this hand anywhere in a shoe when I don't count cards.
    It's not my theory; it's a simple fact. But your statement is correct.

    Don

  8. #99


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    But your statement is correct.
    There's a first!

  9. #100


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    There's a first!
    Not true. It’s a second.

  10. #101


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    There's a first!
    Yes, I was going to add: And we don't get to say that too often around here!

    Don

  11. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    There's a first!
    Lucky for me, I spoke here to remove all my doubt, though at the cost of hundreds of unhelpful comments. We definitely have many professionals here!

  12. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Card counting is not basic strategy.
    Card counting is not basic strategy.

    Indices affect one another.
    Indices affect one another.
    I recently played a lot of double deck blackjack games but am still not so confident with the insurance index of +2.4 for this game. Mathematically speaking, I recently discovered that the insurance index for HiLo varies with the dealing depth in a 2-deck shoe. The index should be about +3.0 at the beginning and about +2.0 at 75% of the penetration. This seemingly contradicts to the conclusion we had earlier that the +2.4 index is fixed throughout the shoe. Can you help explain? Thank you in advance!

  13. #104


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I recently played a lot of double deck blackjack games but am still not so confident with the insurance index of +2.4 for this game. Mathematically speaking, I recently discovered that the insurance index for HiLo varies with the dealing depth in a 2-deck shoe. The index should be about +3.0 at the beginning and about +2.0 at 75% of the penetration. This seemingly contradicts to the conclusion we had earlier that the +2.4 index is fixed throughout the shoe. Can you help explain? Thank you in advance!
    I would be delighted to help explain. You’re wrong. But of course, you usually are. You do remind me so much of Mr. Contrary.

    insurance is linear.

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