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Thread: Illustrious 18 - indexes

  1. #1


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    Illustrious 18 - indexes

    So, I've been incorporating the 'Illustrious 18' deviations into my gameplay.

    Just out of curiosity, I plugged each of the 18 individual deviations into the CVCX 'Index Chart Viewer' on the website card-counting.com. This online index chart is pre-set with 6 decks, S17,DAS, LS.

    I also compared the illustrious 18 with the index's in Wong's "Professional Blackjack" Table A4. This table is for 4 Decks, S17, DAS.

    The indexes found in the 'Illustrious 18', the 'Index Chart Viewer', and in Wong's Table A4 are usually the same, but there are different index numbers for 6 of the 18 plays:

    TT v 6: (4) (5) (4)
    12 v 2: (3) (4) (3)
    9 v 7: (3) (4) (3)
    16 v 9: (5) (4) (5)
    12 v 5: (-2) (-1) (-1)
    13 v 3: (-2) (-2) (-1)

    Where the index number inside the first bracket is from the 'Illustrious 18', the second is from the 'Index Chart Viewer', and the third is from Wong's Table A4.

    So, from reading Blackjack Attack, my understanding is that Don's indexes are based on a 4 deck shoe; whereas Norm's CVData online viewer states it is based on 6 decks. Wong's Table A4 is base on 4 Decks. The CVData online viewer and Wong's Table A4 are both pre-set to S17 rule. I'm not sure which soft-17 rule was used in the Illustrious 18.

    All three of these information sources are beyond reproach and I have no doubts about their accuracy. Its just that I've become a little obsessed with card-counting this month and wondering what accounts for the slight different in these indexes.

    Thanks for any feedback offered.

    Cheers

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by tal32bur View Post
    So, I've been incorporating the 'Illustrious 18' deviations into my gameplay.

    Just out of curiosity, I plugged each of the 18 individual deviations into the CVCX 'Index Chart Viewer' on the website card-counting.com. This online index chart is pre-set with 6 decks, S17,DAS, LS.

    I also compared the illustrious 18 with the index's in Wong's "Professional Blackjack" Table A4. This table is for 4 Decks, S17, DAS.

    The indexes found in the 'Illustrious 18', the 'Index Chart Viewer', and in Wong's Table A4 are usually the same, but there are different index numbers for 6 of the 18 plays:

    TT v 6: (4) (5) (4)
    12 v 2: (3) (4) (3)
    9 v 7: (3) (4) (3)
    16 v 9: (5) (4) (5)
    12 v 5: (-2) (-1) (-1)
    13 v 3: (-2) (-2) (-1)

    Where the index number inside the first bracket is from the 'Illustrious 18', the second is from the 'Index Chart Viewer', and the third is from Wong's Table A4.

    So, from reading Blackjack Attack, my understanding is that Don's indexes are based on a 4 deck shoe; whereas Norm's CVData online viewer states it is based on 6 decks. Wong's Table A4 is base on 4 Decks. The CVData online viewer and Wong's Table A4 are both pre-set to S17 rule. I'm not sure which soft-17 rule was used in the Illustrious 18.

    All three of these information sources are beyond reproach and I have no doubts about their accuracy. Its just that I've become a little obsessed with card-counting this month and wondering what accounts for the slight different in these indexes.

    Thanks for any feedback offered.

    Cheers
    These are pretty close anyway, but last week when I looked up these chart views on card-counting.com, it shows the insurance index is 2.4 for 6-deck s-17, das, las. It is clearly printed on the picture figure there. However, I later discovered that it should be +3. Can anybody explain the discrepancy?

  3. #3


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    Another problematic index is for doubling down. For 11vs9 and 11vsX, I calculated these indices myself to be -5 and -4, but these books say -4, and -4 respectively.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    These are pretty close anyway, but last week when I looked up these chart views on card-counting.com, it shows the insurance index is 2.4 for 6-deck s-17, das, las. It is clearly printed on the picture figure there. However, I later discovered that it should be +3. Can anybody explain the discrepancy?
    Looks like '3' to me.

    https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

    https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

    The graph is a little hard to read, but it clearly states: Insure greater or equal to 3 above the graph.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by tal32bur View Post
    Looks like '3' to me.

    https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

    https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

    The graph is a little hard to read, but it clearly states: Insure greater or equal to 3 above the graph.
    all these figures are hard to read because the horizontal axis numbers are off too much.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    all these figures are hard to read because the horizontal axis numbers are off too much.
    Well...its free and its valuable...and you just need to look at the number in the red box above the graph to calibrate the line intersect point.

    so, I think the appropriate response is to say 'thank you' to Norm for providing this info and his book for free on the site.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by tal32bur View Post
    Well...its free and its valuable...and you just need to look at the number in the red box above the graph to calibrate the line intersect point.

    so, I think the appropriate response is to say 'thank you' to Norm for providing this info and his book for free on the site.
    I am a gambler who want something straightforward and profit making. Regarding your first question, I guess Norm and Don are the right ones to respond, but let me try to answer anyway. If the number of decks is greater than six, indices are more accurate. Otherwise, not.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    all these figures are hard to read because the horizontal axis numbers are off too much.
    No, they are not off. The answer is +3. Keep in mind that different people calculate TC differently. Also, in no way are these charts designed to show fractional indices.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  9. #9
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Might be easier to see this as a step chart. Below is the current way CVData displays this and as a step chart:

    insindex1.jpg

    insindex2.jpg

    I don't use step charts by default as all other indices have two lines and they would overlap. Changing the lines to not be filled would fix this. Incidentally, you can change this yourself in CVData by clicking the Designer button and changing the chart type.
    Last edited by Norm; 04-08-2021 at 10:37 AM.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  10. #10


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    What really confused me is where the horizontal zero is exactly? Is the 0 at the intersection of the vertical line and the horizontal axis? Or at the middle of the two vertical lines?

    Oh, I see what you mean now. You are an expert but this figure horizontal axis has been confusing for three years for me.
    Last edited by aceside; 04-08-2021 at 09:54 AM.

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