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Thread: Interesting Rules - Negative house edge?

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    I don't normally include surrender 33vA and 66vA as I don't think most players do this. This assumption may be wrong. Including them, I get .092%.

    I always include surrender 5, 6, and 7 v A. Although, I wonder how many players do this.

    The cut card effect is included, as discussed on the calculator page.
    Further clarification: BJA3 uses optimal composition-dependent BS and no CCE. A quick look at Mike Shackleford's edge calculator shows that the difference between making these assumptions and getting the result from simulation, via Norm's methodology, yields a difference of ... drum roll ... 0.023%! Add that to Norm's 0.092% and we get 0.1143%. Close enough!

    We may now all get along with our lives.

    Don

  2. #15
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    And then there is rule interaction. Removing CCE but including rule interaction results in .119%. I'll stick with .092%, which is the EV for a perfect BS player in a casino game.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  3. #16
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Most casinos have a 20-30% edge over the players because most players do not play basic strategy.
    You may be talking about "hold", which has little relation to edge. But, even that's high for hold.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    And then there is rule interaction. Removing CCE but including rule interaction results in .119%. I'll stick with .092%, which is the EV for a perfect BS player in a casino game.
    Thanks for that; good to know. So the 0.116% from BJA3 is good until the third decimal, given that it can't account for rules interaction, which, as I mentioned in private correspondence to you, never is worth a significant amount.

    Don

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    You may be talking about "hold", which has little relation to edge. But, even that's high for hold.

    Yes, of course. Stating that a casino has a 20%-30% edge over most players, because they don't know BS, is outrageously wrong. We know that that edge is more in the 2% range, while the hold is around 16%.

    Don

  6. #19
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Not much interaction here. Has more effect with double and split rules, and of course more effect with hand held games. The largest interaction is with H17/S17 which BJA3 handles.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Most casinos have a 20-30% edge over the players because most players do not play basic strategy.
    In my experience, most players do play basic strategy and thus many, often, get upset at a card counter’s actions that deviate from Basic strategy. Some don’t know it very well, others know basic strategy but when it’s in conflict with their intuition, or their personality, they deviate (splitting 9’s against an 8, hitting or doubling A7, etc).

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I have never acted these. Are these specifically for ENHC? Let me look up.
    They are basic strategy for ES games.
    G Man

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by tal32bur View Post
    The 'catch' is that the max bets are extremely low.

    I'm guessing the local casinos are all run by the government with job creation is the main motivation for casinos rather than house profit.
    So you can only make a 1-20 unit spread? If so, maybe thats the reason behind the generous rules. Now, if we could only get more casinos to follow suit.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Jackson View Post
    So you can only make a 1-20 unit spread? If so, maybe thats the reason behind the generous rules. Now, if we could only get more casinos to follow suit.
    Absolutely no relation. The problem isn't the spread, it's the "low limit". This game can easily be beaten with a play all approach and only a 1-10 spread offering a very interesting c-Score.
    G Man

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by G Man View Post
    Absolutely no relation. The problem isn't the spread, it's the "low limit". This game can easily be beaten with a play all approach and only a 1-10 spread offering a very interesting c-Score.
    Indeed. I have access to the exact same game with OBO. 10x spread. More than enough to milk it.

  12. #25


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    bjarg - I recall seeing a casino in the south of your country (where the husband/wife team of former leaders owned hotels) with a max of about 30 USD.

    Edited to add - After posting, I realized there was more than one husband/wife team. These are the ones whose name begins with K and the town is known for a berry specific to the region.
    Last edited by 21forme; 03-11-2021 at 08:09 AM.

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    bjarg - I recall seeing a casino in the south of your country (where the husband/wife team of former leaders owned hotels) with a max of about 30 USD.
    Haha those were actually the days. A lot has changed (for worst as usual). Now probably those max bets are equivalento to $5 haha.

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