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  1. #1


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    The Sundries

    I thought a thread for counting tips, questions, thoughts etc.. that aren't necessarily counting related could be helpful.

    For a couple of examples on questions I have are:

    - Is there an ideal buy-in amount/rule? Does this change based on if one is playing rated or unrated?
    -Should a red chipper play rated?
    -Tips/Thoughts on ratholing

    Stuff like that.

  2. #2


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    I buy in for $100-$200 at $10 tables, $200-$300 at $25 tables. If you are playing rated, you can buy-in for more, rathole some of it.

    You might want to play rated at local casinos because, if you are a regular, they are going to start tracking you anyway. I did and it led to comps I could use for rooms in Vegas, Tunica and other places. When I went to those destinations, I played anonymously.

    Rat holing is, in my opinion, over rated. Sometimes, they see it without your knowing and then, any missing chips are assigned to you. At local casinos, playing rated, you should check often for your won/loss record and on occasion might want to rathole but I would limit it to a few chips at each session.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I buy in for $100-$200 at $10 tables, $200-$300 at $25 tables. If you are playing rated, you can buy-in for more, rathole some of it.
    That sounds low, no?

    If you're spreading around 1-20 that's only one max bet

    ----------

    Separate question on a similar topic. In Blackjack are you allowed to top up in the middle of a hand in situations where you need to split/double? Or do you have to have it covered prior?

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by Below AVG IQ View Post
    That sounds low, no?

    If you're spreading around 1-20 that's only one max bet

    ----------

    Separate question on a similar topic. In Blackjack are you allowed to top up in the middle of a hand in situations where you need to split/double? Or do you have to have it covered prior?
    True but starting out, especially as pit is notified when you first buy-in, with much more and then placing a $10 bet don’t look nice. The pit does not pay attention to the buy-in that is low and closer to what ploppy’s buy in. We don’t really get to our Max bet that quickly and hopefully you can build it up. I believe at most casinos, buying in for, say $1k, draws attention, the pit is called over and then, they seem to take note to keep an eye on you.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    True but starting out, especially as pit is notified when you first buy-in, with much more and then placing a $10 bet don’t look nice. The pit does not pay attention to the buy-in that is low and closer to what ploppy’s buy in. We don’t really get to our Max bet that quickly and hopefully you can build it up. I believe at most casinos, buying in for, say $1k, draws attention, the pit is called over and then, they seem to take note to keep an eye on you.
    Makes sense I could see another advantage in buying in small, which is that you'll need to buy in more often making it look like you're losing more than if you bought in larger and lost the same amount. One con I can think in it though is it may seem a bit suspicious if you're around the break even point and now want to buy in for more.



    For tracking rated players do they write down every buy-in and then subtract it by your color up amount? If so do they tend to miss some buy-ins? If they do it might make sense to buy in for a bit more as that'll make it look like you're winning more than you are (Even with rat-holing.)
    Last edited by Below AVG IQ; 02-22-2021 at 06:25 PM.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Below AVG IQ View Post
    That sounds low, no?

    If you're spreading around 1-20 that's only one max bet
    Someone who ask a question about how much to buy in for spreading 1-20 and in the same post ask this following question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Below AVG IQ View Post
    Separate question on a similar topic. In Blackjack are you allowed to top up in the middle of a hand in situations where you need to split/double? Or do you have to have it covered prior?
    Is in my mind disrespecting the game of Blackjack or is trolling. Go back to your poker game, or buy a blackjack book.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Someone who ask a question about how much to buy in for spreading 1-20 and in the same post ask this following question:

    Is in my mind disrespecting the game of Blackjack or is trolling. Go back to your poker game, or buy a blackjack book.
    How is someone who has never played Blackjack in a casino asking about the rules of playing in a casino considered disrespecting the game?

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Below AVG IQ View Post
    How is someone who has never played Blackjack in a casino
    Sorry, I never would have guessed. Why would that person who never played Blackjack in a casino before and not know the rules of the game be concerned with buy in's for a 1 to 20 spread? That person should be flat betting on the kitchen table.
    Last edited by BoSox; 02-23-2021 at 06:33 AM.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Sorry, I never would have guessed. Why would that person who never played Blackjack in a casino before and not know the rules be concerned with buy in's for a 1 to 20 spread? That person should be flat betting on the kitchen table.
    Rules of casino play and rules of Blackjack are two different things.

    Someone who knows the rules of poker who has never played it at a casino may not know when you throw in a higher denomination chip than the bet it counts as a call and not a raise.

    One could have a perfect game and never figure out the answer to my question without playing in a casino.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Rat holing is, in my opinion, over rated. Sometimes, they see it without your knowing and then, any missing chips are assigned to you. At local casinos, playing rated, you should check often for your won/loss record and on occasion might want to rathole but I would limit it to a few chips at each session.
    I disagree with the first sentence, but to ZeeBabar's underlying point, it helps to know casino protocols so you can manipulate them to your advantage and stay under the radar. I don't pretend to be an expert on this, but here are a few observations/tips from my own experience:


    1. Make sure you don't attract attention when you do it. Figure out how to do it when the dealer is paying attention to something else, when the floor managers are at a different table, etc. A little sleight of hand helps, especially if you do it in a way that won't be obvious to the security cameras. You might also want to think through what sort of clothing choices can help facilitate your rat holing strategy.
    2. The best opportunities I've spotted for staying under the radar are rat holing when someone sits down with chips or walks away without coloring up because it's a natural time for the floor to attribute the missing chips to that other person.
    3. There are certain colors at every table that get special scrutiny. It might differ from casino to casino, but if you're at a $25 table, for example, black chips (and up) are likely to be heavily scrutinized. Rat holing green chips is your best bet (except on the rare occasions when #2 above applies and someone sits down or walks away with a bunch of black chips).
    4. It's basically impossible to rat hole chips if you're playing heads up (one-on-one with the dealer). There are plenty of perks of playing heads up, just don't think you'll be able to rat hole.
    5. I read somewhere you should try to rat hole enough chips equal to roughly twice your EV. So if your EV is $50/hr, you should try to rat hole $100/hr in chips. I don't follow that advice specifically, but the idea, of course, is that in the long run you'll appear to be a losing player.
    6. I read somewhere that big-name casinos have trackers in every chip. I suspect rat holing in those casinos would be more difficult because they'd be able to tell exactly who has each chip. So you might have better luck with this in smaller casinos. But I have no insight into which casinos do and do not use these sorts of chips.


    That's all based on things I've read or things I've observed in the stores I visit. You'll probably learn a lot once you actually are in a casino and playing. As best you can, try to observe what's happening around you. Look for weaknesses and opportunities. And don't be afraid to start small and get bolder as you build your confidence, skills, and knowledge.
    Last edited by smalltowngirl; 04-23-2021 at 12:39 PM.

  11. #11
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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    This is putting the cart before the horse. The problem with most APs is their chip piles will dwindle before they can even rathole.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    This is putting the cart before the horse. The problem with most APs is their chip piles will dwindle before they can even rathole.
    aceside
    As per usual, you’ve missed the point. You rathole to decrease your win. Further, you rathole to increase your loss. Impact on casino estimated win/loss is huge.

    smalltowngirl
    i think you’ve asked some pretty good questions. I’ll find some time this evening to respond with my $.02

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    smalltowngirl
    i think you’ve asked some pretty good questions. I’ll find some time this evening to respond with my $.02
    Freightman, I didn't explicitly ask any questions, but I'd still love to hear your $.02. My AP experience has been a pretty lonely one, and I'm thirsty to compare notes with other folks to continue to learn and grow. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

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