Will this effect my comp and mail offers??

[KJ]

This morning I headed out to one of my local casino's to play thru my weekly video poker free play and hit the sunday morning buffet as I do many sundays. First hand of play thru was uneventful. Hit nothing. Second hand, I held a single queen and drew. Hit nothing. However....the machine 'dinged' and credited me $5 as if I had hit a pair of queens. A few more spins confirmed that when you held a single Jack or better and drew nothing, you were credited as if you drew a pair. Only happened when you held a single jack or better, not if you drew a single jack or better after holding nothing. All other payouts seemed to be normal. My first thought was to play a higher denomination. Unfortunately it was a 25 cent/50 cent/$1 machine and I was already playing the highest denomination. Anyway, I have no idea what kind of advantage I had, I'll leave that to you math guys to figure out, but I continued playing as fast as I could. After about 90 minutes and up a nice chunk of change, a couple gents approached, and told me that game was going out of service. One called me by name and told me I was welcome to move to another machine. I said that I was ready to quit, to which he replied "I'll bet you are" and gave a big smile.

So here are my questions for some of you guys that are a little more familiar with how things work than me. 1.) Rather than the friendly approach, could they have tried to make me return part or all of my winnings? and 2.) Will this event downgrade my status at this casino, effecting my future comp/mail offers? This is a local casino that generally treats me real well. hate to lose that. In hindsight, I should have removed my card after completing my free play playthru, but I didn't think that far in advance.

[Ouchez]

No problem, you did exactly as expected and as an AP would do. That was one cool event and you did not cheat, no harm no foul. I think you were playing at least a 150% game, maybe better.

O

[Chip Hoarder]

This was their mistake, and you weren't doing anything that any other patron - particularly a local - wouldn't have done in your position. In fact, you would have probably raised an eyebrow if you had pointed it out to them. Casino staff are more jaded than anyone, so they can relate to similarly jaded locals and degenerates. From their perspective, you'd have to have fallen off the turnip truck yesterday to not take a shot there. They know the score, and the score is in their favor, particularly with their best customers. Unless they suspect you of being an AP, of course.

[KJ]

No problem, you did exactly as expected and as an AP would do. That was one cool event and you did not cheat, no harm no foul. I think you were playing at least a 150% game, maybe better.
O

How did you figure that, Ouchez? just a guesstimate? I have no idea how to figure. Incidentally, I changed my strategy on the fly, holding all jacks or better, since that was an automatic non-loser. example: If I had a low pair and a king I would hold both the pair and the king rather than the normal just hold the pair. In hindsight, I am wondering if the correct strategy under these circumstances wouldn't be even more extreme.

If you hit a serious jackpot you would not be able to keep it. They would check the machine regardless. I don't see why they wouldn't be OK with what happened. They knew the machine had a problem and chose to let it continue to be used. Maybe they knew you were going to play it until the cows come home so the decision was made to end your fun.

Is there some kind of master software that checks all the machines for mispays? If not they already knew it was broken or they are watching you much closer than you realize.

No they are not watching me that closely, Tthree. This is a location that I don't play much BJ and when I do, it is usually unrated. They are strong on offers for machine play, which is why I give them a little bit regularly. I am assuming based on the way it went down that they are notified by the software or something. Wondering why it took so long? and also wonder why the last player left the game?

[Ouchez]

KJ,

I play a 100% job 9/6 almost exclusively these days as I am very limited where I can play BJ any longer. I know what makes the difference between a 9/6 pay out and a 100%,,based on that, and the fact that that you are paid for a pair holding just 1 pair, Jacks or Better,...,,, I was probably way off at 150%. Probably closer to 106%.

I will say this, if you could play that game 40 hours a week you would have one nice guaranteed income!!!!!!! (betting $5 a spin). But you already found that out.



O

[darco77]

Incidentally, I changed my strategy on the fly, holding all jacks or better, since that was an automatic non-loser. example: If I had a low pair and a king I would hold both the pair and the king rather than the normal just hold the pair. In hindsight, I am wondering if the correct strategy under these circumstances wouldn't be even more extreme.

Nice find, KJ. I've only dreamt about things like this! My quick calculation is quite close to Ouchez's second guess of 106%. The hiccup adds about 7% to the base return of the game, assuming you continue to play the basic strategy for the regular game. Regarding your strategy modification mentioned above, my instincts tell me you should have just held the pay card and dumped the low pair. You likely stand to gain much more by holding the single pay card and drawing four new cards versus only drawing two. Drawing four opens the possibilities of every payout - including the Royal - with no downside. By holding the pay card and the low pair, you increase your likelihood of hitting Two Pair, but you are capped at Quads and preclude yourself from all Flushes and Straights. This would be more disadvantageous on a game like Double Bonus, where Two Pair is a push rather than a win. But regardless, you had a big enough edge here to make some decent bucks, the gig is now gone, and it sounds like variance fell in your favor.

Regarding your standing at this place, my guess is because they were so friendly about it they aren't concerned. If this place is as "local" as you make it sound, I can't imagine they have a way of detecting pay errors on their machines. I have never even heard of such a system, but wouldn't attribute that to anything below a central server machine bank a la Aria. I think you are in the clear. What puzzles me is why they'd allow that machine to stay in order if they knew there was a problem. Perhaps a problem was reported, but they were unaware of the severity of it.

[PonyPrincess]

Ugh, I have dreams about finding this type of machine as soon as I get home I'm going to figure out what edge this is. Even the conservative 6% is like $300/hr... at a FIVE DOLLAR machine.

I HIGHLY doubt this should affect your mailings. The marketing department (who sends out the mailings/comps) and what goes on, on the actual floor is so separated it's ridiculous.

Also I have NO idea how they figured out it was bugged. I don't even know how it would get set like that.

[sagefr0g]

..............
Also I have NO idea how they figured out it was bugged. I don't even know how it would get set like that.

my guess would be one of two things, human error or something on the order of insider trading. if the latter perhaps the machine was meant for some one else (an outsider compatriot of an insider) but kj just stumbled upon it, blocking the compatriots play.
if it was only human error, it's awfully coincidental that it was caught just as kj was playing the machine, raising in my mind the possibility that the more sinister reason was the cause.

[PonyPrincess]

It's just such a weird error. I could understand if it was something where the payouts were wrong and listed because that seems like a thing you can change internally. But keeping a high card pays 1:1? I don't even know how that'd be an option in a machine.