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# Thread: Taboo (Warning: Explicit!)

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## Taboo (Warning: Explicit!)

As a new player one of the first things you must do in order to count cards is obviously to pick a card counting system. My God... The search for this answer leads you down a vicious blood covered path that falls just short of people pulling down their pants and whipping out the rulers.

I think it's safe to assume that when trying to solve for x and "New" is in the equation, the advice will be to stick to Hi-lo or REKO. And I'll heed that advice, that being said I was drawn to Hi-Opt II. So, I was wondering if learning/starting at a more complex system is worth it for someone looking for a system with versatility or if a level 1 system is sufficient.

^Also since we're in the winter months of a pandemic I thought maybe with adjusting for taking away the usual opportunity cost of spending a few extra hundred hours learning (Or whatever hours) might make it closer?

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I played around with it for a bit just practicing counting down a deck. (With ASC) Then I went to CVBJ to take a peek at the deviations to see what they were like and saw (I believe?) that they were all in a RC instead of a TC? It also dawned on me that I had no idea what to do with the information of the ASC. lol.

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Originally Posted by Below AVG IQ
As a new player one of the first things you must do in order to count cards is obviously to pick a card counting system. My God... The search for this answer leads you down a vicious blood covered path that falls just short of people pulling down their pants and whipping out the rulers.

I think it's safe to assume that when trying to solve for x and "New" is in the equation, the advice will be to stick to Hi-lo or REKO. And I'll heed that advice, that being said I was drawn to Hi-Opt II. So, I was wondering if learning/starting at a more complex system is worth it for someone looking for a system with versatility or if a level 1 system is sufficient.

^Also since we're in the winter months of a pandemic I thought maybe with adjusting for taking away the usual opportunity cost of spending a few extra hundred hours learning (Or whatever hours) might make it closer?

----------

I played around with it for a bit just practising counting down a deck. (With ASC) Then I went to CVBJ to take a peek at the deviations to see what they were like and saw (I believe?) that they were all in a RC instead of a TC? It also dawned on me that I had no idea what to do with the information of the ASC. lol.
First, the count you use depends on what you are looking at doing long term. Are you looking at mostly shoe games, shoe and "pitch" (1 & 2 Decks), or simply "pitch"?

Second, for a beginner, I would recommend a L1 count to start with. I started with KO before going to HO2. The transition was easy...like learning a new language after learning a first. That's just me. You may be different!

Third, I would recommend you take heed that everyone has a personal favourite count. I like HO2 w/ ASC and 7SC. Again, that's just me though. I like to play DD games.

Consider that shoe games are abundant and you are a beginner, I would recommend a L1 count like High Low or KO and keep the 16 to 18 indicies you plan to use. I also recommend wonging out early when the shoe goes significantly negative, leave the game, leave the casino, and fuck-off into the sunset to the next place. In fact, learning mostly +TC indicies would serve you best and you should leave at either -1 or -2 TC in shoe games with a modest spread (whatever your current bankroll is, your min bet, and your risk tolerance is.)

Going to higher level counts require dedication and best reserved for at least a 6-12 month active counter after they have proved themselves. That's just the bare minimum, though. YMMV.

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Another thing to consider.....are you ever going to join a team? Most teams use HiLo. If your using a different counting system, you wont be able to pass or receive the count.

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Originally Posted by dogman_1234
First, the count you use depends on what you are looking at doing long term. Are you looking at mostly shoe games, shoe and "pitch" (1 & 2 Decks), or simply "pitch"?
I'd like to be as versatile as possible and to be able to take full advantage of higher EV games, I live in the mid-west and there appears to be a handful of DD games in my area (According to the DB in CasinoVerite - Though I don't know how accurate/up to date that is) Though being versatile in this context may be to learn multiple counts for different games?

I'll take your advice learn a L1 and once I'm confident that I have a winning game and am comfortable executing it in a casino setting, then look to add more tools to my toolbelt.

Originally Posted by dogman_1234
Third, I would recommend you take heed that everyone has a personal favourite count.
I will definitely note this. When attempting to find more information on Hi-Opt II a lot of the reading involved people at each others throats at a level that possibly could be described as tribalism. Lol.

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Just out of curiosity why is Hi Opt II's indexies in RC instead of a TC? (If I'm not mistaken?) Also, when keeping side counts such as ASC how do I apply that information in my betting? Not that I need this information today as I will be starting at a L1 I'm just curious.

Originally Posted by tunicadave
Another thing to consider.....are you ever going to join a team? Most teams use HiLo. If your using a different counting system, you wont be able to pass or receive the count.
I'll probably need to develop the skills to be put on a roster before I consider joining one. Though, this is true if one is to learn a language it's probably best to learn the one most spoken first.

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Originally Posted by Below AVG IQ
I'd like to be as versatile as possible and to be able to take full advantage of higher EV games, I live in the mid-west and there appears to be a handful of DD games in my area (According to the DB in CasinoVerite - Though I don't know how accurate/up to date that is) Though being versatile in this context may be to learn multiple counts for different games?
Consider getting one month of CBJN to get an up-to-date reference on local BJ games : CBJN

I will definitely note this. When attempting to find more information on Hi-Opt II a lot of the reading involved people at each others throats at a level that possibly could be described as tribalism. Lol.

Just out of curiosity why are Hi Opt II's indexies in RC instead of a TC? (If I'm not mistaken?) Also, when keeping side counts such as ASC how do I apply that information in my betting? Not that I need this information today as I will be starting at a L1 I'm just curious.
I don't know what reference you are using, but the references that I use all have HOII in TC mode.

As per the ASC: generally, when it comes to betting, we take our running total of how many aces have been drawn and subtract it from the number of 1/4 decks (~13 cards) that have been drawn. Ex : you are playing a DD game and 7 Aces have been drawn. You take a look at the discard tray and notice that only 1D has been drawn. That is, we have 4 1/4 decks drawn. So, our adjusted ASC is 7 - 4 = 3.

For betting, we then take our adjusted ASC (the 3) and multiply it by -2 : -2 * 3 = -6. We then add this to our HOII RC, adjust our RC with the -6 and divide by the number of decks we have remaining. So, if our RC is 5 or -3, then we have a TC of (5 + -6) / 1 = -1 or (-3 + -6) / 1 = -9.

The same idea holds for playing adjustments, but each playing adjustment has its own unique value, not the -2 that is used for betting.

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I guess it’s too late, you have been sold, to tell you to find something else. Just don’t count on it as a full time profession.

I started with HiLo, tried to get to a higher level count, realized that neither counts nor languages come easy to me. Then, many here also suggested I forget about higher counts and look to improvements in other areas, particularly game selection. So now, I don’t play DD with any more than 3 spots taken, if penetration is less than 55% than only play heads up, etc. I also soon realized that I was extra sensitive to heat so HiLo suited me as I could glance at table and get the count, allowing me to look at TV screens, converse with others, etc. Perhaps not optimal but I prefer DD, win with HiLo.

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Originally Posted by dogman_1234
I like HO2 w/ ASC and 7SC. Again, that's just me though. I like to play DD games.
It is easy to side count aces for single and double deck games, but it is almost impossible to do it for 6-deck and 8-deck games because there are so many of them. Besides, I feel that most times if not all, side counting aces is useless for multiple deck games. This means HOII is not versatile at all. How do you use HOII then? I have been bothered by this puzzle for some time.

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I Would like to note on the subject here, that if you plan on playing "both" pitch and shoe games then "Zen Count" is a very good option here, even for beginners...

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Originally Posted by ZeeBabar
I guess it’s too late, to tell you to find something else you have been sold,
Too late and sold on what?

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar
Just don’t count on it as a full time profession.
This should go without saying. It would be silly for me as someone who has never played a round of Blackjack to think "This is what I do now"

Though, you do see this quite a bit in poker where someone will watch the movie Rounders etc. and think it's a quick buck not realizing the countless hours in the lab they'll need to spend working on achieving a balanced winning strategy. So I guess you guys see the same things here.

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You need an IQ number of 119 to count card for profit. Mine is above this number but I am still losing.

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