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Thread: Hitting Hard 17 and Heat

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    On the same note, the player might as well go all the way after splitting tens as each ten receives a seven and you double both hands for less. The casino will never bother you again for the rest of your life.
    Good one, Bosox! The pit boss will start asking you why you are not splitting your 10’s each time you get them, lol.

  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    On the same note, the player might as well go all the way after splitting tens as each ten receives a seven and you double both hands for less. The casino will never bother you again for the rest of your life.
    I knew I should double down for less more often

  3. #16


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    Seriously guys, do you have casino stories on you or someone else hitting Hard 17?

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat View Post
    Seriously guys, do you have casino stories on you or someone else hitting Hard 17?
    I have one true story that happened to me about 12 years ago and it bothered me for 11years until now where I think it is funny as hell.

    Started with a big mistake of being overtired and about to end a long day of playing blackjack. While playing with two other players against a oriental female dealer and I have a decent bet out and am dealt a blackjack with the dealer showing an ace up she looks me in eye and ask if I want even money, all of this took place in a few seconds, being a borderline close call I decline, while she waves her hand across the table I have a quick change of heart an put half my bet in the insurance box while letting her know. She checks and does have blackjack leaves my money in the insurance box without paying and says to me you should have took even money. I immediately went into a trance that may have been 5 seconds but seemed like hours and say ohoooo okay. About an hour later on the highway about 40 miles away I have an epiphany and start contemplating about taking the next exit and turn around but quickly realized that I was playing unrated and would not remember what table I was at anyway, lesson learned.

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    I have a quick change of heart an put half my bet in the insurance box while letting her know. She checks and does have blackjack leaves my money in the insurance box without paying and says to me you should have took even money.
    Great story! I can understand the frustration! I once had total 21 with a bunch of small cards. Dealer thinks I busted, picks up my cards and the chips. I have a doubt for a second but I told her I think I have 21. I really wasn't sure because I was tired too, dealer was fast and I was at first base to boot. She checks the cards in the discard tray and I did have 21. She calls the pit boss. He tells her to give me the cards back as well as the chips. Pit boss asks me if with some sarcasm: NOW DO YOU WANT ANOTHER CARD? Thanks but no thanks! She finishes the round with the other players and pays me off but I almost let that one slip away. Same lesson. Stay fresh!

    So much for Hard 17 stories !!!
    ...

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    About an hour later on the highway about 40 miles away I have an epiphany and start contemplating about taking the next exit and turn around but quickly realized that I was playing unrated and would not remember what table I was at anyway, lesson learned.
    I don’t get why you wanted to go back to that casino again. It is clear you have been an AP for for more than 11 years, and you are experienced.

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I don’t get why you wanted to go back to that casino again. It is clear you have been an AP for for more than 11 years, and you are experienced.
    This was only a quick brief thought to go back and ask for a review of the time frame recording for possibly getting a correction. I quickly realized that any further exposure was not worth the time and loss payoff cost to me.

  8. #21


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    Where do I find extended indices like when to hit 17? I got my chart from BJA and it's limited to about 75 indices, mostly all on positive counts.

  9. #22


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    BJA3 or Wong's Prof BJ.

  10. #23
    Senior Member Tarzan's Avatar
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    There is a bit of a "catch 22" situation on this, but hands such as 17vs7, 17vsT, 17vsA, if you had around TC-10 along with a huge amount of (5-9) removed, for me it would look something like 0-16-14 @1.5 to hit hard 17vsT. In a 6D game, I would have wonged out long before hitting this point. In a DD game play all scenario, the chances of seeing this sort of deck composition is slim, along the lines of how often you see the index for doubling 12vs6. On top of all that, if you are using Hi-Lo or similar, how do you determine (5-9) removed? You don't. This is off the top of my head, so I'd have to look this up, but I can't see how you could have an accurate index for this using Hi-Lo or similar. You can calculate any tricky and unusual composition dependent index you want, but what good is it unless you can employ it at the table, the practical application factor? It's also something that could bring you a lot of scrutiny. I should add these indices for hitting hard 17 will have little or no impact on your bottom line.

    What might be more relevant is the surrender index for 17vsT if late surrender is offered, around +6,+7 range when you have a max bet out there. When I am flipping cards, playing a mock game on my blackjack table at home, it's always a play all situation, and I vary between picking every hand apart with a microscope, taking my time doing it and fast heads up, as fast as I can go. There's the rare WTF occasion in which I pause and consider something like hitting hard 17, not often enough to make any difference whether I did it or not since it's going to be a minimum bet out there and the lack of frequency of the situation occurring.
    Last edited by Tarzan; 01-28-2021 at 08:24 AM.

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan View Post
    In a DD game play all scenario, the chances of seeing this sort of deck composition is slim, along the lines of how often you see the index for doubling 12vs6. On top of all that, if you are using Hi-Lo or similar, how do you determine (5-9) removed? You don't. You can calculate any tricky and unusual composition dependent index you want, but what good is it unless you can employ it at the table, the practical application factor? It's also something that could bring you a lot of scrutiny. I should add these indices for hitting hard 17 will have little or no impact on your bottom line.
    I do have a way to figure out if hitting hard 17 is the better play (at DD only) but the scrutiny factor was the idea behind my question. I agree it's not a money maker but can it make a few bucks here and there while taking a low card out of a neg shoe and maybe even terminate a neg shoe. Is it worth the attention though?
    Off all players, Tarzan, you certainly know when hitting Hard 17 or doubling down 12 vs 6 is the better play. Glad you brough this point up. From your response my understanding is that you would not make either move in real casino play when it's appropriate to do so for the purpose of staying under the radar.
    Is that correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan View Post
    What might be more relevant is the surrender index for 17vsT if late surrender is offered, around +6,+7 range when you have a max bet out there.
    Great point! It probably brings less attention too. Is that correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan View Post
    When I am flipping cards, playing a mock game on my blackjack table at home, it's always a play all situation, and I vary between picking every hand apart with a microscope, taking my time doing it and fast heads up, as fast as I can go. There's the rare WTF occasion in which I pause and consider something like hitting hard 17, not often enough to make any difference whether I did it or not since it's going to be a minimum bet out there and the lack of frequency of the situation occurring.
    Nice to hear about how you train. Most people don't know how to train at whatever they are trying to do. If you have other training suggestions, feel free to share! What's your BJ daily routine for example?

  12. #25


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    [QUOTE=tex;295115]Indeed it makes sense. Try hitting your hard 17 and splitting tens either in the Sahara or TI and you will be shown your retirement notice, it comes with no pension unfortunately.

    Of course if you have other names at your disposal, it really just becomes a temporary unpaid leave...

  13. #26
    Senior Member Tarzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat View Post
    Nice to hear about how you train. Most people don't know how to train at whatever they are trying to do. If you have other training suggestions, feel free to share! What's your BJ daily routine for example?
    Be advised you're asking this of someone that hasn't looked at a copy of CBJN for about 2 years, but train for the specific rules/game you plan on tackling next. I messaged you about the finer points of that, such as incorporating large-breasted Swedish massage girls into your training. Flip cards until it all becomes very automatic for you by the time you hit the table in real time.

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