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Thread: CVCX - Spreading to 3 hands?

  1. #1


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    CVCX - Spreading to 3 hands?

    Hi all!

    I'm completely new to card counting and planning my first trip to the casino in a couple weeks. I've been messing around with CVCX trying to define my exact strategy and hourly rate when I ran into some numbers that surprised me. Applying a 1:20 spread on a $5 min bet with my rules gave an hourly EV of ~$25. However, at my max bet (TC = 5 in this sim) I wanted to split into 2 hands, since I feel like 2x$50 would generate less heat than 1x$100. After plugging it in, I saw I would only make $20/hour - a 20% decrease just for splitting into 2 hands.

    1to20_1hand.jpg

    1to20_2hands.jpg

    This surprised me quite a bit - I assume it's because I eat through the deck faster, which gets amplified by being heads up. A 1:30 spread, spreading to 2 hands at TC >= 5 actually makes less than the 1:20 spread with 1 hand the whole way through (all bet sizings and other variables equal). And I haven't even accounted for the fewer rounds/hour that come along with spreading to 2 hands, so realistically it would be even worse.

    I was planning on aggressively spreading 1:30 with a min of $5 and a max of 3x$50 because I felt like it would generate less heat, but now I'm unsure. Does CVCX have a way to simulate spreading to 3 hands so I can check these numbers myself?

    And on a side note, is it silly to think that spreading to 3x$50 would generate less heat? My state has a $100 max bet rule so I'm trying to avoid bumping that ceiling. It also makes simulating a 3 hand spread even more important in case I move up in stakes.

    Thanks!

  2. #2


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    Why do you think 2 x $50 will generate less heat ? OK, you're not going to get a 'blacks play' call but to me it looks more like a calculated move from someone who obviously knows what he's doing rather than someone steaming or getting lucky. I could be wrong of course but I still wouldn't assume you'd get less heat.

  3. #3


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    I wouldn’t worry about heat. Your max bets are 150 dollers. A 1-20 spread is fine.

    When you start doing 1-40 spreads that’s when your play maybe looked at. That’s my opinion.

    When I started and played straight up counting games I was doing 1-40 spreads.

    I did get some back offs. But not as many as some players think.

    Heat is a real thing but some players get to paranoid about it.

    You should be fine with low stakes.

    Just my 2 cents. I hope it works out for you.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBurger View Post
    <snip>I was planning on aggressively spreading 1:30 with a min of $5 and a max of 3x$50 because I felt like it would generate less heat, but now I'm unsure. Does CVCX have a way to simulate spreading to 3 hands so I can check these numbers myself?<snip>
    SweatyBurger,

    Welcome to the Forum!

    As to your question, no, CVCX does not allow for three hand betting. For that, you'll need to use CVData.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

  5. #5


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    With regards to why I think it'll generate less heat, it mostly has to do with my state having a $100 max bet rule. I think spreading from the absolute minimum of $5 to the absolute maximum of $100 looks pretty suspicious. The only bigger fish to fry are people spreading to 3x$100. But I would agree that it's marginal if anything, and it probably won't be worth sacrificing any hourly EV. I appreciate the responses.

    @Dog Hand, exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBurger View Post
    Hi all!

    I'm completely new to card counting and planning my first trip to the casino in a couple weeks. I've been messing around with CVCX trying to define my exact strategy and hourly rate when I ran into some numbers that surprised me. Applying a 1:20 spread on a $5 min bet with my rules gave an hourly EV of ~$25. However, at my max bet (TC = 5 in this sim) I wanted to split into 2 hands, since I feel like 2x$50 would generate less heat than 1x$100. After plugging it in, I saw I would only make $20/hour - a 20% decrease just for splitting into 2 hands.

    1to20_1hand.jpg

    1to20_2hands.jpg

    This surprised me quite a bit - I assume it's because I eat through the deck faster, which gets amplified by being heads up. A 1:30 spread, spreading to 2 hands at TC >= 5 actually makes less than the 1:20 spread with 1 hand the whole way through (all bet sizings and other variables equal). And I haven't even accounted for the fewer rounds/hour that come along with spreading to 2 hands, so realistically it would be even worse.

    I was planning on aggressively spreading 1:30 with a min of $5 and a max of 3x$50 because I felt like it would generate less heat, but now I'm unsure. Does CVCX have a way to simulate spreading to 3 hands so I can check these numbers myself?

    And on a side note, is it silly to think that spreading to 3x$50 would generate less heat? My state has a $100 max bet rule so I'm trying to avoid bumping that ceiling. It also makes simulating a 3 hand spread even more important in case I move up in stakes.

    Thanks!
    $100 max bet rule is not one that a card counter seeks out. You should read your upcoming ballot and vote accordingly...

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by Counting_Is_Fun View Post
    $100 max bet rule is not one that a card counter seeks out. You should read your upcoming ballot and vote accordingly...
    Ugh I know, it's pretty frustrating. But for now counting is just a hobby and my bankroll is small so it's not a big deal. Maybe in a year or two when I have a bigger bankroll I'll get out of here and take a real shot at it.

    EDIT: I actually just opened my ballot today and saw what you may be referring to. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!
    Last edited by SweatyBurger; 10-29-2020 at 11:40 AM.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBurger View Post
    Ugh I know, it's pretty frustrating. But for now counting is just a hobby and my bankroll is small so it's not a big deal. Maybe in a year or two when I have a bigger bankroll I'll get out of here and take a real shot at it.

    EDIT: I actually just opened my ballot today and saw what you may be referring to. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!
    Ha yes, make sure you go vote on it...and take your friends with you

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