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Thread: ASM vs Hand Shuffle

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    Senior Member BetWise21's Avatar
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    ASM vs Hand Shuffle

    All other things being the same, rules, penetration, number of decks, etc. no-shuffle tracking, no hole carding. Is there any math or science that makes hand shuffle better, worse or the same as ASM?


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    More hands per hour with ASM.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    ASM for straight counting is better because it's faster. Hand shuffles are better for advanced stuff that relies on procedural or system errors. There are exceptions, particularly carnival games.

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    Senior Member BetWise21's Avatar
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    I believe that more hands per hour also benefits the house as well (because of unskilled players) so why would they offer the hand shuffle?
    "between the conception and the reality, falls the shadow "

    Paraphrased: T.S. Eliot's
    The Hollow Men

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetWise21 View Post
    I believe that more hands per hour also benefits the house as well (because of unskilled players) so why would they offer the hand shuffle?
    Because some people don't trust/like the machines. They tend to listen to their customers at the higher limit games where the casino makes more money.

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Yes, it destroys the concept of a James Bondian casino. Younger players appear to prefer electronica. I wonder if this will continue. There is something about the mano-a-mano concept of gaming that I think may return. The casinos must find a way to bring this back. Otherwise, they will fade into the sands of the desert.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    The best thing for the casinos to do is just a one pass riffle shuffle. It will save them time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetWise21 View Post
    I believe that more hands per hour also benefits the house as well (because of unskilled players) so why would they offer the hand shuffle?
    There's a few variables to take into account here:
    -How many "more rounds" per hours will be dealt?
    -What's the average number of players at the table?
    -What's the average bets?
    -What's the average skill of the players in your casino?
    -How many hours per day is this particular table open?
    -What's the cost of the ASM? Buy or rent?

    And one last variable I never see in the equation....

    Most people like to have some kind of "variety" in their job, specially in a boring job like dealing cards. Hand shuffling produces some sort of a "brake" from dealing with small talk, change in posture of the hands, etc. Now, when you remove this element from your dealers, how many of them will consciously or unconsciously "slow down the game" to get the same kind of break time from dealing? Take a few seconds more when burning the cards, when coloring checks, etc. Now ask again the casino management: How much more additional hands do we really get per hour?

    My belief is that ASM and CSM peddlers are of the same shitty breed. They sell wind at a high price and on false promises to the casinos management who have it shoved deep down in their A... Most casinos using ASM have no clue on how to use it profitably. Don't tell them!
    G Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by G Man View Post
    Most casinos using ASM have no clue on how to use it profitably. Don't tell them!
    Agree. How many casinos have the dealers strip the cards or do a riffle or two before putting them in the ASM? Most! Their lack of understanding of their games and procedures costs them big bucks over the long term.

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    Anyone recently compare penetration level of hand shuffled versus ASM shuffled cars? One would think hand shuffled would have deeper penetration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    One would think hand shuffled would have deeper penetration.
    That presumes casino management has an understanding of what they're doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    That presumes casino management has an understanding of what they're doing.
    We probably have a member that is casino management.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beating vegas View Post
    We probably have a member that is casino management.
    So?

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