Share you Spanish21 experiences

[bjanalyst]

Freightman suggests that
Rather than investing tons of time on a game you don’t know and will seldom play, use hi lo, starting with -24 On the 6 deck game. Break even is about -3 as I recall, and your max bet is out at about true 0. If you get positive counts, blast away.

Whereas blackjack has a rule of thumb Of .5 increase in edge per true count, you can hike that to .7 at Spanish. I haven’t played in years and I’ve forgotten a lot. Again, if you’re going to play this game - it’s fun but it’s dangerous - it has high variance - strategy is entirely different than BJ - you’ll get hammered if you use BJ strategy for Spanish.

One last point. If you go to Pennsylvania, play their great BJ games you know, rather than the great Spanish game you don’t.

I live in PA so these games are literally around the corner from me. On casino is one mile from where I live and two more are less than 20 miles form where I live and another casino is scheduled to be opened in the city I live in. Both the Spanish 21 and blackjack games are great.

But I do play blackjack and not that much Spanish 21. I explained the game I play is five decks, six decks dealt, S17, DAS, LS, Super 4 and Lucky Lades (full payout - not the cheapo LL payout).

I use KO with AA89mTc and 5m9c which besides being great for blackjack, is also great for Lucky Ladies' where I use the Tc = Ten count = KO + AA89mTc for the LL bet and for Super 4 I use S4c = Super 4 count = KO - (AA89mTc + 5m9c). And I am absolutely not going to go into any more details on the LL, Super 4 or blackjack bets using my count system because I am sick and tired of being insulted. So no more detailed free advice that is correct by the way because of a select few rude, obnoxious readers.

A comment on the Spanish 21 where I live, It is S17 so lower variance than your H17 redoubling game which may have the same edge as S17. I prefer the S17 with less variance .

Also the betting running count (brc) for S17 has a larger variance than the brc for H17 so S17 brc will uncover more favorable opportunities.

You need to add a side count to the HL for improve HL betting for both S17 and H17 betting since for Spanish 21 HL has a low betting efficiency as I described earlier. But I am not about to list the brc to use because again, I refuse to submit myself to personal attacks. If I do not list my system, I cannot be attacked. Therefore I will not include any details, just generalities, in my comments.

Starting at -24 for the six deck game and counting with negative numbers is way to much work and negative numbers are more difficult to count than positive. And while it is correct that at zero you should have your max bet out that is because you have a Spanish 21 HL true count of four. Finally you do not mention how to get true count for other HL running counts. You have no true count conversion in your system.

I am not going into details on the TCRC. But with the TCRC you start your HL at zero and so you are most of the time dealing with just positive HL running counts and the TCRC lets you see what the true count is for all HL counts with no calculations - just a quick mental table look in the TCRC. And just remember to add 4 to Katerina Walker's indices.

[Freightman]

BJAnalyst said
“
Starting at -24 for the six deck game and counting with negative numbers is way to much work and negative numbers are more difficult to count than positive. And while it is correct that at zero you should have your max bet out that is because you have a Spanish 21 HL true count of four. Finally you do not mention how to get true count for other HL running counts. You have no true count conversion in your system.”

Why is it difficult from -24, I find it easy peasy. And to clarify, I myself used Halves as in why should I Deviate from what is an automatic count for me. What you mean no true count conversion Kimosabe! Just convert any count. Just know your various negatives and increase in edge per true count. Side count FBM ASC - for feel good play.

[Norm]

BTW, if you highlight text with the mouse, a QUOTE button should appear. Click it to create a quote in your reply like this:

I find it easy peasy

You can create multiple partial quotes doing this.

[Freightman]

BJAnalyst said
“
Starting at -24 for the six deck game and counting with negative numbers is way to much work and negative numbers are more difficult to count than positive. And while it is correct that at zero you should have your max bet out that is because you have a Spanish 21 HL true count of four. Finally you do not mention how to get true count for other HL running counts. You have no true count conversion in your system.”

Why is it difficult from -24, I find it easy peasy. And to clarify, I myself used Halves as in why should I Deviate from what is an automatic count for me. What you mean no true count conversion Kimosabe! FBM ASC - for feel good play.

[Freightman]

The expert on S17 Spanish, and all Spanish for that matter, was Three. To bad he’s not around for this thread.

[Freightman]

BTW, if you highlight text with the mouse, a QUOTE button should appear. Click it to create a quote in your reply like this:




You can create multiple partial quotes doing this.

Doesn’t seem to work on my iPad

[Freightman]

BTW, if you highlight text with the mouse, a QUOTE button should appear. Click it to create a quote in your reply like this:




You can create multiple partial quotes doing this.

I don’t think this is the intended method, but this awkward way us how it works on my iPad.

Highlight text and copy
Reply with quote, the entire message
Select all and cut
Paste the text highlighted from step 1
Hit the quote button (1 of many buttons)

Works for sure 1 selection of text. Multiple selections - don’t know about that.

think I’ve got it now, but think it is different than pc?

[Norm]

No idea on a mobile device. Much simpler than that on a PC. In the advanced editor, there is also a Quote Break button that allows you to split a quote into multiple quotes.

[21forme]

I live in PA so these games are literally around the corner from me. On casino is one mile from where I live and two more are less than 20 miles form where I live and another casino is scheduled to be opened in the city I live in.

Guess you don't cafre, but you just outed your location.
P.S. have a Yuengling for me.

[21forme]

No idea on a mobile device. Much simpler than that on a PC. In the advanced editor, there is also a Quote Break button that allows you to split a quote into multiple quotes.

Freightman is a member of the iCult.

[Freightman]

Freightman is a member of the iCult.

iPads are very easy to use and make me very efficient. About an hour or two of my gruelling 4-5 hour work week is spent in front of my new toy (55 inch Smart Sony). Another hour or two of my gruelling work week is spent at my satellite Starbucks office doing paperwork. Another hour or two is spent at customer locations.

occasionally, I have 1-2 hour meetings with my customers vendors (whom I set up for my customers), which can sum my week to 6-7 hours. Anything more than that annoys me.

[bjanalyst]

BJAnalyst said
“
Starting at -24 for the six deck game and counting with negative numbers is way to much work and negative numbers are more difficult to count than positive. And while it is correct that at zero you should have your max bet out that is because you have a Spanish 21 HL true count of four. Finally you do not mention how to get true count for other HL running counts. You have no true count conversion in your system.”

Why is it difficult from -24, I find it easy peasy. And to clarify, I myself used Halves as in why should I Deviate from what is an automatic count for me. What you mean no true count conversion Kimosabe! Just convert any count. Just know your various negatives and increase in edge per true count. Side count FBM ASC - for feel good play.

You are using what I call the shifted running count = src.

n = number of decks, dr = decks remaining.

src = HL - 4*n where HL is Spanish 21 HL.

The tc = true count = 4 + (HL - 4*n) / dr = 4 + src / dr.

What Katarina does is have you start your HL running count at (-4*n) and so when you update your HL running count you are actually updating the src = HL - 4*n and then calculate src / dr to get her "tc" which is not really a true count at all since the real tc = 4 + src / dr.

So what Katrina did was create a table of "indices" where she reduced the real tc indices by 4 so you can use her artificial src / dr with that table of artificial indices.

If you want to know the true count for betting similar to blackjack you need to add four to Katarina's true count, thus tc = 4 + src/ dr and now you have a true count you can use for betting similar to blackjack.

That is why I say to add 4 to Katarina's indices and then you can use the TCRC which was generated from the correct tc formula which is tc = 4 + (HL - 4*n) / dr = 4 + src / dr

I guess is you like counting negative numbers, doing division to get your "tc" and the remembering that it is not really a true count but is really tc - 4 so you must add 4 to src / dr to get the real true count for betting.

I think starting your count at zero which is more natural and since HL is unbalanced most of the time your HL count will be positive and i find that using mostly all positive HL running counts there is less chance of errors and less exhaustion. But that is just my opinion.

I liked staring at zero and then using the TCRC and I get my true counts by mentally "looking up" the TCRC based on HL running count and dp =decks played. Almost all of the counts are positive by starting at zero, you do not have to remember to start at -24 for 6 decks or -32 for 8 decks and such and you do not have to do any division and you do not have to add 4 to src / dr to get the real true count for betting.

Also by adding 4 to Katarina's "indices" you get the real true count "indices" which make more sense and immediately agree with basic strategy plays by seeing which strategy changes when the indices change from less than zero to great than zero. Within these Spanish 21 indices, now Spanish 21 indices less than zero basic strategy says stand and with indices greater than zero Spanish 21 basic strategy says hit so now you have indices that actually agree with Spanish 21 basic strategy snice if you are not counting you have to assume tc(HL) = 0.

But I am not going to tell you what to do. If you are happy with Katarina's technique of shifted running counts then use it along with all of the extra calculations involved.

[Freightman]

2 comments for BJAnalyst

1. Don’t use BJ hi lo indices for Spanish. I understand what you’re doing, but it will give you variance headaches. Spanish has its own set of indices.

2. Everyone’s brain is wired differently. What you consider difficult is really simple for me. And for the amount of Spanish I play, which is now negligible, I’m not interested in reinventing the wheel. A few years ago, I probably would have been.

someone can correct me if I’m wrong - Katarina was a mathematician and simulated everything. They’re better Spanish count systems today, but Katarina’s work was groundbreaking for its day. Further, both Don and Norm can confirm or deny, but I believe Katarina collaborated with both of them as well as others during the construction of her book.