More Indices or Higher Level Count

[Freightman]

I had made this suggestion of back counting and playing with different counts for the HL player who was thinking of switching to Wong's Halves (WH) for increased betting efficiency.

The WH is very similar to HL so you can pick up the WH count at the HL count you had for shoes that you actually play with very little loss in accuracy and use the HL indices for playing strategy and your hybrid HL/WH count for improved betting. You cannot do this with any two counts - the counts have to be very similar to do this switching.

If you can keep WH flawlessly for shoe after shoe including shoes you never play then great. But you even said WH was difficult.

You had mentioned in a previous thread that you do not like anything larger than level 2 and thought that WH being a level 3 count was very difficult.

So keeping WH is difficult even if back counting. So I was trying to think of a compromise where player would get most of he benefit of added betting efficiency of WH without having to keep WH for every shoe back counted.

Given that three of our four shoes are never played, if you are back counting each shoe with WH you are wasting a lot of mental energy in shoes that are never played. Better to save that mental energy for shoes that you will actually play is my thought where you will be sharp and not make mistakes because you are not exhausted from keeping WH for the 75% of shoes you never played and you will also be able to play more hours doing this.

So I thought a good compromise was to back count all shoes with the HL. If the tc(HL) > 1 only then start counting with WH picking up the WH count using the HL count you had as the starting point of WH.

WH is very similar to HL so you can then use HL indices with this hybrid HL/WH count and gain some of the betting efficiency of WH and save yourself lot of mental energy as you are keeping WH only when are actually going to use it.

Anyhow that was just my suggestion to save mental energy of keeping WH for every shoe including the 75% of shoes you never play.

Do you still think this hybrid HL/WH count is a bad idea?

Yes, I can keep a Halves count flawlessly shoe after shoe after shoe. It’s ingrained and is absolutely automatic.

No, it’s a bad idea to backcount with hi lo and convert to halves when wonging in. The big advantage with Halves is its ability to accurately identify weakness or strength in moderate counts. It’s easy to show remaining shoes where hi lo identifies a positive or negative count while halves identifies exactly the opposite situation.

Whatever count you start back counting with is the count you should finish off with.

[Freightman]

Yes, I can keep a Halves count flawlessly shoe after shoe after shoe. It’s ingrained and is absolutely automatic.

The big advantage with Halves is its ability to accurately identify weakness or strength in moderate counts.

I should qualify this comment a bit more.

1. I use half true counts in my sims. I will ramp differently than those who play halves and sim on full true counts, and floor their bets. With my typical game at .5 house edge, I will ramp at true 1.0 (breakeven) and ramp with a 3rd unit at true 1.5. Note that this approach would be considered inferior for those simming on full true counts. I can explain further if there is interest there.
2. I have no issues in ramping in a break even situation trading that variance with the house. I play 1 hand to start, and my typical rule tells me that I must play double min to play 2 spots. Accordingly, ramping at break even with 4x dollars at risk becomes problematic for that player.
3. Ramping at break even makes a further ramp at true 1.5 more natural.
4. I use a dual ramp system. It would make the above explanation more interesting, but that will be for another day.
4. Halves vs hi lo - I have far more confidence in approach described using halves.

[bjanalyst]

Yes, for the exact reasons I stated. You are dropping the more difficult count when it is easier to use, and forcing a mind switch between two counts in the same shoe, increasing errors and difficulty while decreasing speed.

OK Bad idea. Thanks for your input. Scrap the dual count them. Always use one count Got it.

By the way what do you think of the reader who is a shuffle tracker?

I think ST is very difficult and hard to do and not very accurate. I know I cannot do it.

And besides where I play they have the automatic shuffling machine anyhow so ST is not possible but even if it was I think it is too hard to do and not accurate.

What is your opinion on ST?

[Norm]

ST is very complex and time must be spent finding a trackable shuffle. When you can find one, it can be highly profitable.

[bjanalyst]

ST is very complex and time must be spent finding a trackable shuffle. When you can find one, it can be highly profitable.

I know I cannot ST. Have you ever tried it? Can you do it? Do you have any personal experience in ST?

[Norm]

Hah, I just play with another. Let someone else do the work.

[21forme]

I know I cannot ST. Have you ever tried it? Can you do it? Do you have any personal experience in ST?

I have, but it's been several years. Finding trackable games these days are far and few between. Fifteen years ago, they weren't hard to find.

[stopgambling]

OK Bad idea. Thanks for your input. Scrap the dual count them. Always use one count Got it.

By the way what do you think of the reader who is a shuffle tracker?

I think ST is very difficult and hard to do and not very accurate. I know I cannot do it.

And besides where I play they have the automatic shuffling machine anyhow so ST is not possible but even if it was I think it is too hard to do and not accurate.

What is your opinion on ST?

You think inside the box , trying to squeeze water out of a rock. : )

[beating vegas]

I have found some ace sequencing games out there.

As far as Slug tracking goes I prefer a negative NRS. Cut that zone to the front and bet heavy off the top.

The casino also sees your betting heavy at start of game and they say no counter.

They are few and far between games. Thank god for other skills to use.

[Norm]

Now, that's an actual valuable cover example.

[Gramazeka]

I have found some ace sequencing games out there.

As far as Slug tracking goes I prefer a negative NRS. Cut that zone to the front and bet heavy off the top.
.

Are you confident in your skills? Or is it just a bunch of words that you heard somewhere?

[bjanalyst]

I like the discussion on ST. Very interesting but something I would not be able to do. Besides the casino I play at uses automatic shufflers so with no hand shuffled games there is no ST.

But I would like to get to my other favorite topic which is using chips for side counts.

for the past almost two years players on the forum kept on complaining repeatedly just how difficult keeping for example the KO with AA89mTc and 5m9c are.

Using chips, they are extremely easy to keep. I just move around the chips as the cards are played.

I do not keep the AA89mTc and 5m9c in my head. I only keep KO in my head.

When I need the AA89mTc or 5m9c I just glance at my chip stacks. Keeping these side counts with chips is extremely easy and automatic for me and requires no extra mental work on my part. I move around the chips instinctively without even thinking.

In the shoe game there is plenty of time to update both the AA89mTc and 5m9c stack of chips with extra time left over for me to twiddle my thumbs. Moving chips around is not some superhuman task that takes someone with extraordinary skills. It is amazingly simple to do. Just takes a little practice then it becomes automatic.

As Don Johnson said in a You Tube interview I saw, even a monkey can count cards. Same goes for using chips as a side count to the primary count. It is extremely easy to do! Not sure why everyone goes spastic and cries over the "difficulty" of keeping the simple side counts with chips.

[beating vegas]

Are you confident in your skills? Or is it just a bunch of words that you heard somewhere?

Yes I’m comfortable with my skills. Mr master tracker..

Do you really think your a master ? I’m not the best black player in the world like you. I’m always looking to improve my skills and learn new ones.

As far as shuffle tracking goes it’s not my top skill but I can do it with a weak shuffle.