can red 7 0r zen be used for spanish 21 and how can I adjust indices for either count?
No, the Red 7 and Zen Count are absolutely not good for Spanish 21.
Spanish 21 requires a customized count specifically for its idiosyncrasies (lack of 10-pip cards). The best published system is Katarina Walker's, who twisted the Hi-Lo count into a hybrid unbalanced yet TC calculated method.
Other more balanced systems have been discussed on this forum, but not published per se.
I have two novel profitable Spanish counting systems to be introduced in my upcoming book. One I call the ¡Olé Olé! Count, (c) 2023 by Ole. (LoL).
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Red 7 isn't such a good count for Spanish 21. The 7 is more of a neutral card due to its use in the 6-7-8 and 7-7-7- bonuses, so you don't want to count it as a low card.
Zen is an ok count for Spanish. It still counts the 7, which is bad. It's going to have a pretty strong playing efficiency, which is more important for Spanish 21 due to the greater number of effective indexes (we're hitting/standing on a lot of stiffs against low cards). But the betting efficiency isn't going to be so good. The ace is a much more important betting card in Spanish 21 than blackjack. Almost twice as important.
Walker's Hi Lo unbalanced and the Secret Monkey Count (Hi Lo except the ace is counted as -2) are the best systems that are fairly easy to pull off. But you can definitely go to some counts where the ace is -3 and get really strong betting efficiency. And you can really get cooking if you side count aces, but it's mostly dealt from shoes so that's going to be a lot of work.
The Cash Cow.
Correct, moo321, the 7 card must be de- emphasized in a count, in fact it should have a neutral tag in Spanish, certainly not even half positive as in Red 7.
Straight up Zen is a balanced count in Blackjack, but would become unbalanced in Spanish 21, so I would recommend against it. You'd need to modify it, and then you'd be constructing your own indices de novo anyway.
You are correct in that an ASC system would be best, (even Katarina said that), and that bringing the Ace to a --3 effective tag value would really do the trick. Well guess what; That's what my professional level (a.k.a. a bit difficult) system does. But I also have an easier level 1 single parameter system called the Olé! Count that's very very effective yet simple.
If you can wait a bit (probably a long bit), I'll see if the book publisher can move forward on that.
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Thanks Cac.Originally Posted by Cacarulo
Yeh, they were developed in Cambridge back in the day, and tested at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun (Sp21 8D S17), and Oxford Maine, and some native American casinos out west (Sp21 6D H17 Double-Double-Down). We were honestly super successful, and fell in love with Spanish 21. Very recently we've been playing on riverboats in the Midwest where some still have Spanish 21 (6D H17), with great success.
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I’m an amateur mathematician. I’ve never had a math degree, so I am here really to learn. As Don has said, it’s just a little harder to convince me.
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Thanks for looking it up. It's a cheer for success, and that's the aim in Spanish 21. I've seen novice players cheer when they learn the BS nuances of the game, and our team players who know the whole Olé! (c)2015 system will quietly slip away with all their colored chips to cheer more loudly at the club across the street.
Yes, the math counts. I'm sure you'll find the math convincing for these upcoming counts.
And let me tell you, I know darn well how hard it is to convince Don.
Ole
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