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Thread: FBM ASC Basic and Advanced - Outline, by request

  1. #1


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    FBM ASC Basic and Advanced - Outline, by request

    At 21forme’s request, a general outline of the FBM ASC Basic and Advanced (Featuring Dual Ramp System) is shown below. Initial info is somewhat elementary, but is shown to demo general thought progression. I promised a min 100 line discussion, which I might have made given more time. I preferred to be more compact in comments.

    What is Basic Strategy
    1 billion card sim accounting for all possible card combinations to arrive at a single playing strategy designed to minimize losses.

    What is Card Counting
    Keeping track of whether a deck is rich or poor in high versus low cards. Method is to maintain a running count. Utilizing an Ace Reckoned system, running count is then converted to true count. The resulting True Count then determines appropriate bet based on factors of player bankroll, rule set, deck pen, tolerance to risk etc. This strategy, used properly will produce a long term win over the house.

    What is Index Strategy
    1 billion or more card sim to arrive at multiple playing strategies, each strategy dependant upon actual True Count. Each individual true count has its own “basic“ strategy, of which many of these individual true counts vary from Basic Strategy. These individual basic (if you will) strategies are referred to as indices. This strategy, used properly in conjunction with card counting, will increase profits an additional 20-30% over the house.

    What is Ace Reckoned True Count
    In a balanced count, assigned tag values produce a running count. Running Count divided by Decks Remaning equals True Count.
    RC/DR=TC

    How does ASC help in an Ace Reckoned System
    Not for betting - primarily for Insurance where thresholds may be adjusted up or down based on Ace surplus/deficit, and certain ace sensitive split and double decisions. FBM ASC Basic incorporates ASC.

    What is Quality of True Count (use hi lo to most easily describe)
    My own twist. Card Counting Systems measure ratio of hi to low cards. Little attention is paid to intermediate cards. Simulations do not distinguish the impact of intermediate density on results - they are simply a part of the whole. Quality of True Count, aka QTC, measures the ratio of high to intermediate to low cards. That ratio determines QTC and impacts betting levels. Essentially 5 card group (10,J,Q,K,A) is measured against 4 card group (6,7,8,9l and (2,3,4,5). Resulting proportions determine which ramp you should be on. Intermediates are tracked utilizing a letter system.

    How does QTC affect betting in a standard ramp strategy
    A typical ramp would see betting decrease or increase at designated True Counts depending on QTC.

    How does QTC affect betting strategies utilizing a dual ramp system
    Assume 6 deck shoe.
    1. Determine ramp required to beat based on rules and deck pen.
    2. Redo ramp based on what you think you can get away with.
    3. Temper upper ramp if required (usually is) to max house tolerance.
    Illustration
    $25-$200,$250,$300
    $50-$400,$500,$600
    Using mid ramp as an example, do not misconstrue as 20-1 spread, rather as 2 distinctly individual 10-1 spreads. Typical dual ramp systems simply alternate ramps by individual shoes. You are still subject to the same percentage issues pertaining to positive and negative variance. FBM ASC Advanced with Dual Ramp System incorporates both ramps within the same shoe, usually determined by QTC. Deviations from this happen, at players discretion, in lower plus true counts usually in first part of shoe. Consider impact on longevity when increasing bet (lower to upper ramp) on a declining count. Can anyone determine FBM ASC Advanced underlying theory?

    Importance of Record Keeping
    Will determine if you’re okay with a simple ramp type system, or if you would benefit from a dual ramp scenario. Consider factors such as Dollar win/loss per session, percentage win, overall dollar win measured against sim. Other factors such as strength of bankroll need to be considered. I would suggest that only the most savvy of you can figure out the type of impacts one would experience utilizing dual ramp. To assist, review your current win loss stats against simmed EV, manipulate your win loss percentages against revised dollar win losses. I’ve built quite a collection of these calculations with the revised percentage cumulative win/loss and its effect on revised cumulative dollar win/loss calculated against revised dollar win/loss per session. Can anyone articulate underlying theory that propels overall results, and in general, what those results are?

    Concepts developed over a period of years conceived by actual results, asking questions, developing for my own count system and understanding ideas of others that most of you have relegated to the junk pile - discarded due to lack of understanding.

    If you want to expand your paradigms, reread a couple of times and ask away. Consider the possibility that the bullshit was not bullshit.

  2. #2


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Oh no, he really did a 2m5c7p Unabomber-like manifesto.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Oh no, he really did a 2m5c7p Unabomber-like manifesto.
    It’s much clearer
    Much easier to understand
    Much easier to 8ncorporate with existing systems

    And besides - be careful what you ask for

  4. #4


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    "Essentially 5 card group (10,J,Q,K,A) is measured against 4 card group (6,7,8,9) and (2,3,4,5).

    The 6, whose EOR is greater than 2 and about equal to 3, is considered an intermediate card??

    Don

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "Essentially 5 card group (10,J,Q,K,A) is measured against 4 card group (6,7,8,9) and (2,3,4,5).

    The 6, whose EOR is greater than 2 and about equal to 3, is considered an intermediate card??

    Don
    I’ll review my old notes. I expect to see something (hand) graphed wanting to maintain a balance. Since that part of the concept came from a specific individual, (don’t think he knows that I adapted it to my purpose), I’ll try to get hold of him and discuss.

    Don’t know yet if you have a point. Regardless, the 3 possible conclusions are
    You have no point with no action required, you have a point requiring a probable 535 vs 544 approach, you have a point, but minor.

    I’ll get back when I can.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Using mid ramp as an example, do not misconstrue as 20-1 spread, rather as 2 distinctly individual 10-1 spreads. Typical dual ramp systems simply alternate ramps by individual shoes. You are still subject to the same percentage issues pertaining to positive and negative variance. FBM ASC Advanced with Dual Ramp System incorporates both ramps within the same shoe, usually determined by QTC. Deviations from this happen, at players discretion, in lower plus true counts usually in first part of shoe.
    I first read about this in Dynamic Blackjack and thought it was very cool ... are you suggesting something similar? I figured you could have something like 4 ramps, for 2 bankrolls switching between 1 and 2 boxes.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Natural View Post
    I first read about this in Dynamic Blackjack and thought it was very cool ... are you suggesting something similar? I figured you could have something like 4 ramps, for 2 bankrolls switching between 1 and 2 boxes.
    You’re pretty close. For myself, I just look at it as 1 bankroll. In the heat of battle, who knows what you’re winning or losing in the lower vs upper ramp. I simply look at it as what my profit or loss is at the end of the session. Having said that, it’s proper to designate 1/3 of bankroll to lower Ramp and 2/3 to upper. This can be adjusted if you are dealing upper ramp high true limitations due to house tolerance.

    As most of my play is heads up, I usually play 1 spot based on parameters I’ve listed, and limitations also listed. If 1 or possibly 2 others at table, then I’ll go 1 to 2 boxes at about true 2, though best SCORE is about true 1.5 (utilizing half true counts). At true 2, im not going to worry to much about covariance, though I will start to take covariance into account in the higher true counts, regardless of which ramp I’m on.

    Dynamic can be simmed easily as you are alternating between lower and upper ramp full shoe by shoe. Simming what I do accurately is really tough, and frankly I can’t do it. They’re other twists that I have not yet described. Not described in a Dynamic, because you are not mixing ramps within a shoe, are the benefits which are... ......... the challenge was raised in my OP.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "Essentially 5 card group (10,J,Q,K,A) is measured against 4 card group (6,7,8,9) and (2,3,4,5).

    The 6, whose EOR is greater than 2 and about equal to 3, is considered an intermediate card??

    Don
    This strange partitioning of the card ranks is by the way the same as in Down Under Blackjack, just discussed in the Software forum.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    You’re pretty close. For myself, I just look at it as 1 bankroll. In the heat of battle, who knows what you’re winning or losing in the lower vs upper ramp. I simply look at it as what my profit or loss is at the end of the session. Having said that, it’s proper to designate 1/3 of bankroll to lower Ramp and 2/3 to upper. This can be adjusted if you are dealing upper ramp high true limitations due to house tolerance.

    As most of my play is heads up, I usually play 1 spot based on parameters I’ve listed, and limitations also listed. If 1 or possibly 2 others at table, then I’ll go 1 to 2 boxes at about true 2, though best SCORE is about true 1.5 (utilizing half true counts). At true 2, im not going to worry to much about covariance, though I will start to take covariance into account in the higher true counts, regardless of which ramp I’m on.

    Dynamic can be simmed easily as you are alternating between lower and upper ramp full shoe by shoe. Simming what I do accurately is really tough, and frankly I can’t do it. They’re other twists that I have not yet described. Not described in a Dynamic, because you are not mixing ramps within a shoe, are the benefits which are... ......... the challenge was raised in my OP.
    Im not sure if your ramp is based on your edge though..It almost seems as if your just using a fancy betting spread/strategy, just not sure.

    Nevertheless, i could speculate here and say your using the upper ramp using the middle cards to increase your chance at blackjack. Also since i side count Aces already myself ive seen a million times a good positive count only to have a surplus of Aces Played justify a 1unit bet. And sure enough i pull that XX on a 1 unit bet..So maybe, and i might be speculating here, but you could possibly be using one ramp for blackjacks and the other for QTC i dont know..

    But in Nut Shell, are you suggesting a dual ramp with WH against Multiple Decks and side counting the middle cards too? Gonna be tough!
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 08-25-2020 at 01:14 AM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Jackson View Post

    But in Nut Shell, are you suggesting a dual ramp with WH against Multiple Decks and side counting the middle cards too? Gonna be tough!
    JJackson
    What does WH stand for. You’ve asked some good questions, and I would like to answer them all together. Just up for a few minutes, back to bed, so it will be a while b4 I respond.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    JJackson
    What does WH stand for. You’ve asked some good questions, and I would like to answer them all together. Just up for a few minutes, back to bed, so it will be a while b4 I respond.
    Wong Halves. I was just accepting the challenge. Anyway.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  12. #12
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    ... Can anyone determine FBM ASC Advanced underlying theory?....
    either that freighty has too much time on his hands? or that he enjoys playing "pocket pool"?

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Jackson View Post
    Wong Halves. I was just accepting the challenge. Anyway.
    I’ll be at my satellite office (Starbucks) in about a half hour or so. I’ll get you back on course

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