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Thread: Opinion of Blackjack Apprenticeship?

  1. #92


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    Quote Originally Posted by Texascc View Post
    I too am learning and taking a very regimented approach to practice and counting before stepping inside a casino again. I have many questions and ideas and would like to introduce myself to Forum but do not want to high jack this thread. What is the best place to make an introduction? Thank you.
    Figure you want to introduce to the forum and not specifically me, but still glad to connect and chat about our processes. PM me if interested.

  2. #93


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    3) Bet spread (modeled using CVCX) (completed)
    4) Deviations (I-18) (1-2 weeks)

    Play low stakes
    low spread to start, even though it wouldn’t be a money maker. Once you’re used to the pace and distractions of the casino, start spreading. Also, use that time to refine your comportment at the table. Look natural, look like a ploppy.

    ogle at the waitress while chatting it up with the critter, simultaneously praying for mercy from the card gods - just a few examples of long term survival skills.

    Be smart, look stupid.

  3. #94


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Be smart, look stupid.
    Wise words. I'm quickly realizing that this likely isn't for me as a long-term pro. More as a hobbyist that can put in 100-200 hours per year and enjoy the comps along the way.

  4. #95


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuecesWild22 View Post
    Wise words. I'm quickly realizing that this likely isn't for me as a long-term pro. More as a hobbyist that can put in 100-200 hours per year and enjoy the comps along the way.
    Finally, some sense. To be honest, I never went thru all those steps, all that training. First,mplayed without knowing anything, won maybe $50. Got interested in the game. Looked up resources (No Internet then), read a couple of books (Early Patterson, Wong), went back and started playing after practicing counting for about a week. Up and down at low stakes but not losing, read a couple of more books (Revere, Uston), cut up flash cards, Revere’s colorful charts and carried them, practicing a bit, just counting. Those books had little Or none on optimal betting, BR management. In those days, my states (where I was living) had no casinos and had to go to Vegas, Reno/Tahoe or AC. Not often. Then came the new century, the internet, joined BJ21, read post of the month, archives, posted every error, mistake (cause of not reading or practicing seriously), got skewered by forum members (BJ21 did not operate like this forum) and learned I could handle the humiliation, kept going back on that forum and then this one as that one got terminally ill. Learned a lot on the forum but to do that I had to post every thing, every mistake, act of stupidity, both playing BJ and sex.

    To make it short, start playing while learning, ask questions even if they have been asked by others before, adm it screw ups.

  5. #96


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuecesWild22 View Post
    Wise words. I'm quickly realizing that this likely isn't for me as a long-term pro. More as a hobbyist that can put in 100-200 hours per year and enjoy the comps along the way.
    why would some douchebag neg this post.

  6. #97


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Finally, some sense. To be honest, I never went thru all those steps, all that training.
    Quarantined and WFH provides the time to do this at home, especially with the software allowing me to rip through hands. Essentially aiming to not reinforce bad habits if jump to the casino too quickly. Still, from everything I read (forums/books) they suggest 100+ hours of practice before jumping into the real deal. Realistically, my schedule has me putting in approx. 50 hours. So well below the "average" if all goes according to plan.

  7. #98
    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    why would some douchebag neg this post.
    Freighter, someone on here obviously doesn't like you (or your posts) but more likely it's you. He is hiding behind anonymity. I've noticed it on some of your posts that shouldn't cause any concern at all. Norm said if it continued, he would take care of it. But I know you have a semi thick skin. It's not like you are getting a huge amount of neg likes. LOL
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #99
    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuecesWild22 View Post
    Quarantined and WFH provides the time to do this at home, especially with the software allowing me to rip through hands. Essentially aiming to not reinforce bad habits if jump to the casino too quickly. Still, from everything I read (forums/books) they suggest 100+ hours of practice before jumping into the real deal. Realistically, my schedule has me putting in approx. 50 hours. So well below the "average" if all goes according to plan.
    Just be ready to go back and practice more. Anyone who is a beginner and thinks they have it "all down" practicing at home, is in for a rude awakening trying to do it in a true casino environment. There are so many distractions, issues, things that will affect your play. But to be honest, no amount of practice will EVER get you ready for the casino experience. I would reiterate what was said above and play for lower stakes than CVCX states for your bankroll for your first initial experiences JUST to get your feet wet and find out what it takes to keep your HEAD in the game.
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #100


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    Quote Originally Posted by MJGolf View Post
    Freighter, someone on here obviously doesn't like you (or your posts) but more likely it's you. He is hiding behind anonymity. I've noticed it on some of your posts that shouldn't cause any concern at all. Norm said if it continued, he would take care of it. But I know you have a semi thick skin. It's not like you are getting a huge amount of neg likes. LOL
    As I alluded to Norm, there was Prick A and Prick B, whom I referred to Mini Prick B. It would have been more appropriate to have referred to him as Mini Prick A, as in the funny farce film, Goldmember. (Mini me)

    The patterns were clear - Prick A was negging everything, and mini Prick A at about a 50% or so rate of Prick A. It had been going on for some time before I started subtly bitching about it. Interestingly enough, when Norm advised that he had removed all of Prick A’s ratings, including 175 negative posts, the positive side of the equation didn’t budge 1 millimetre. In other words, 0 positive and 175 negative - not exactly random response.

    The fact that Norm finally acted was something at least. Perhaps he should have looked further. I’m an expert at these types of spatial relationships, and I have won many many battles in my regular business activities, a singular entity against multi faceted hordes of departments and divisions which make up my corporate opponents - often finding that theIr left hand doesn’t know what right hand is doing. Patience and experience being the key - this was child’s play.

    I admit that I set this up - generating multitudes of posts that would attract the large number of negs. The Douchebags in question increased their negs at rate commensurate with my inviting posts. BJAnalyst actually gave me the opening that I wanted (not realizing it, and I properly thanked him) and I asked another forum member to post a specific type post which gave me the opportunity to begin my covert campaign, which I considered as entertainment. You might recall the multitude of posts referring to FBM ASC Basic and Advanced with dual ramp system. By the way, there’s actually something to that, and there were no takers on my open invitation to determine the key ingredient of what an AP must be prepared to understand, a concept being contrary to counter logic.

    Norm indicated that outing the Douchebags in question was against the rules, however, on a prior occasion, a forum member was named after negging me about 50 times, so I don’t see what the big deal is. I would guarantee a verbal evisceration of the individuals in question - further, the first individual named a couple of years back, would be dumber than hell to repeat his actions. Perhaps they would consider outing themselves.

    Now, I make reference to the Four Douchebags of the Apocalypse. I’m not suggesting that Countingusfun is a member of said group, however, I note that he is suspended or banned indefinitely - either as a last straw for his activities by Norm, but noted immediately by me of his deleted response post after I quoted him some Shakespeare. Maybe he is the main culprit, maybe not. If not, then Norm should confirm.

    MJGolf - thanks for asking the question. I was hoping someone would. Oh, and yes, I do have a thick skin.

  10. #101


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuecesWild22 View Post
    Quarantined and WFH provides the time to do this at home, especially with the software allowing me to rip through hands. Essentially aiming to not reinforce bad habits if jump to the casino too quickly. Still, from everything I read (forums/books) they suggest 100+ hours of practice before jumping into the real deal. Realistically, my schedule has me putting in approx. 50 hours. So well below the "average" if all goes according to plan.
    Play while you practice, because you never know it is for you until you do. It’s like doing “unpaid internships” in college. It gives you a real feel for the profession that interests you. Sure, you might lose a bit if you play before you are fully capable but consider it as tuition. To learn any career, you need experience.

  11. #102


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    Quote Originally Posted by MJGolf View Post
    I would reiterate what was said above and play for lower stakes than CVCX states for your bankroll for your first initial experiences JUST to get your feet wet and find out what it takes to keep your HEAD in the game.
    Good advice. CVCX produces a ROR of <2% with blacks (1-12x spread) but Std Dev is higher than I'd prefer when considering it as a hobbyist venture. Plan to red chip it for the first few trips (or even back count) and then jump into green when I feel comfortable. Of course, this is all talk and talk is cheap. I need to follow through on the plan and only time will tell if it happens.

    Today marks the start of transitioning into BJA free trainer (5 second timer) and counting down a deck (also free).

  12. #103


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuecesWild22 View Post
    After watching Holy Rollers I realized that Ben Crawford was the true leader of the team. Colin seemed more behind the scenes running the numbers and producing graphs for team meetings. This isn't to say Colin isn't a great BJ player. He clearly has the ability to market and teach. Simply an observation that he seemed more along for the ride while Ben made the big calls and ultimate team direction. Making it relatable to the thread for BJA - I am using his free training platforms in combination with CVCX and Verite BJ. This past week I have dedicated to mastering basic strategy with over 1,000 hands per day. Excel file shows that I range from 98 - 100% (more recently 100%) without a timer and currently working with a 5 second timer to get the heart rate going. The upcoming 3+ weeks will be solely spent on card counting. Current goal is to roll out my first casino visit in late October at very small stakes.


    My introduction...I live in central Texas but grew up going to Vegas with my parents long before I could gamble, staying in Circus Circus, Treasure Island, etc. Learned the rules to games and prepared myself to play as soon as I turned 21 years old. I would go 3-4 times a year with my girlfriend/fiancée/now wife and we stayed all over spending most of our time sightseeing, eating, shopping, and taking in shows. She would crash early and I’d go down and play blackjack for hours every night loosely using Basic Strategy. I loved the game and started to read about counting cards. Right about that time we found out that we were expecting our first child. That pretty much ended our trips to Vegas and then life continued to happen including a total of three kids and a 16-year hiatus from Vegas. Fast forward to today and I’m training regularly to learn Hilo (or KO) and soaking up any and everything I can read or listen to about card counting or AP play.

    I’ve mastering Basis Strategy and learning to keep the running count. I’ve been using the updated Blackjack Blueprint book as my main guide, but own almost all of the known blackjack books. I’ve watched all of BJA’s free videos as well as listened to all of their podcasts and GWAE’s podcasts. I’m taking my time during my training because I’m not in a rush to get to a casino right away. I want every mental move or calculation to be second nature. I am using flashcards for mastering the last few BS decisions that I even hesitate on (such as a few soft total doubles) and repeatedly count thru decks of cards daily. I can flip over a deck in 25-30 seconds perfectly keeping the running count, and fan thru a deck even quicker cancelling in groups. I keep a deck of cards at my work desk and start and end my day counting thru them a few times each as well as my BS flashcards. I do this at lunch and at home as well. I also use BJA’s free online BS and counting drills almost daily. I’m at the point of deciding to move forward with Hilo and start to learn deck estimation or jump on KO instead. I’m very comfortable keeping the running count already.

    I’m trying to be realistic with my expectations. I already know I’m not going to get rich from this. I have a 20+ year career and don’t plan on ever trying to do this full time. I like the idea of beating the game and would love to make some extra money by taking day trips to areas around me and playing aggressively at those casinos while also returning to our trips to Vegas and playing more for comps or rewards but still have a fighting chance to bring home some money. I plan on hopefully keeping my spread to level that won’t raise much suspicion but still helps me survive longer and win some money.

    I apologize for the length of this and promise this will be my longest post. I welcome any comments as well as advice of whether I should stick with Hilo or go with KO. Thanks, and I’m glad to be a part of the group.
    Last edited by Texascc; 10-03-2020 at 06:08 PM.

  13. #104


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    Quote Originally Posted by Texascc View Post
    My introduction...I live in central Texas but grew up going to Vegas with my parents long before I could gamble, staying in Circus Circus, Treasure Island, etc. Learned the rules to games and prepared myself to play as soon as I turned 21 years old. I would go 3-4 times a year with my girlfriend/fiancée/now wife and we stayed all over spending most of our time sightseeing, eating, shopping, and taking in shows. She would crash early and I’d go down and play blackjack for hours every night loosely using Basic Strategy. I loved the game and started to read about counting cards. Right about that time we found out that we were expecting our first child. That pretty much ended our trips to Vegas and then life continued to happen including a total of three kids and a 16-year hiatus from Vegas. Fast forward to today and I’m training regularly to learn Hilo (or KO) and soaking up any and everything I can read or listen to about card counting or AP play.

    I’ve mastering Basis Strategy and learning to keep the running count. I’ve been using the updated Blackjack Blueprint book as my main guide, but own almost all of the known blackjack books. I’ve watched all of BJA’s free videos as well as listened to all of their podcasts and GWAE’s podcasts. I’m taking my time during my training because I’m not in a rush to get to a casino right away. I want every mental move or calculation to be second nature. I am using flashcards for mastering the last few BS decisions that I even hesitate on (such as a few soft total doubles) and repeatedly count thru decks of cards daily. I can flip over a deck in 25-30 seconds perfectly keeping the running count, and fan thru a deck even quicker cancelling in groups. I keep a deck of cards at my work desk and start and end my day counting thru them a few times each as well as my BS flashcards. I do this at lunch and at home as well. I also use BJA’s free online BS and counting drills almost daily. I’m at the point of deciding to move forward with Hilo and start to learn deck estimation or jump on KO instead. I’m very comfortable keeping the running count already.

    I’m trying to be realistic with my expectations. I already know I’m not going to get rich from this. I have a 20+ year career and don’t plan on ever trying to do this full time. I like the idea of beating the game and would love to make some extra money by taking day trips to areas around me and playing aggressively at those casinos while also returning to our trips to Vegas and playing more for comps or rewards but still have a fighting chance to bring home some money. I plan on hopefully keeping my spread to level that won’t raise much suspicion but still helps me survive longer and win some money.

    I apologize for the length of this and promise this will be my longest post. I welcome any comments as well as advice of whether I should stick with Hilo or go with KO. Thanks, and I’m glad to be a part of the group.
    Welcome. But in my opinion, you are wasting your time learning to count cards if you live in the middle of TX. That might be the worst location in the US to pursue card counting. You will never get enough hands played to justify your time spent learning. It's about the long run...a very long run.

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