Opinion of Blackjack Apprenticeship?

[littletimmy]

Personally bought this in January 2025. Did it for over 240h from scratch. Made over 19k in profit over 4 months. The video course, practice tool with casino noise simulation, bet spreading tools and the result tracker is very useful. Had to combine the casino 411 with other source like BJ21 etc.

Community front toxic at time but old forum post are very helpful to get into other kind of AP play and more in dept math post on how Standard of deviation, N0 concept etc works.
Overall a great buy for a beginner like me.

But I would say if they offer a cheaper version just of the tools for pros would be perfect. IE (300$/year range)

[Archvaldor]

Personally bought this in January 2025. Did it for over 240h from scratch. Made over 19k in profit over 4 months.

Come back to us in 4 years and you may have some idea how well you are doing.

[littletimmy]

I just gave my review of the product in 2025 as a new counter and no I don't think I will be posting here in 4 years...

[Archvaldor]

I just gave my review of the product in 2025 as a new counter and no I don't think I will be posting here in 4 years...

That was kind of the point.

[G Man]

I just gave my review of the product in 2025 as a new counter and no I don't think I will be posting here in 4 years...

Do you mean you'll be broke or out of business because of too many barrings? In both cases, this is sad!

[Sidecount]

Not sure if this was asked or observed before. I might have done it somewhere but can't remember! A few random thiughts about BJA here.

Colin's claim of taking $4M from casinos sounds impressive but was it really that big for the actual participants? Rotating through a bunch of players in an out and also considering travel and hotel as well as some other expenses like polygraph and possibly some player theft or dishonesty it seems like it might not have been worth THAT much for the team. 40 players by $4M would have been $100k each. Colin himself obviously had more than that. Other players maybe not as much?

Would be curious how much the participants actually made in profit for how long they were in the group...as opposed to the sort of inflated sounding number of "total taken off of casinos."

I do like his interviews though. And he seems honest about a new player's chances and needing to actually do things properly. He doesn't falsely hype them into it. He talked a lot about some of his student failures who didn't really follow instructions properly.

[OnlineAP]

Not sure if this was asked or observed before. I might have done it somewhere but can't remember! A few random thoughts about BJA here.

Colin's claim of taking $4M from casinos sounds impressive but was it really that big for the actual participants? Rotating through a bunch of players in an out and also considering travel and hotel as well as some other expenses like polygraph and possibly some player theft or dishonesty it seems like it might not have been worth THAT much for the team. 40 players by $4M would have been $100k each. Colin himself obviously had more than that. Other players maybe not as much?

Would be curious how much the participants actually made in profit for how long they were in the group...as opposed to the sort of inflated sounding number of "total taken off of casinos."

I do like his interviews though. And he seems honest about a new player's chances and needing to actually do things properly. He doesn't falsely hype them into it. He talked a lot about some of his student failures who didn't really follow instructions properly.

I have not read the book, but I have read many stories about blackjack teams for a long time. None of the amounts won per team member are very impressive. Even the MIT team doesn't seem to have made that much money and it probably got harder after they exposed so many of the practices. I believe the real pioneers in the field of counting made a lot of money, but I don't know anyone personally who claims to have made significant money counting. And I know dozens of professional gamblers.

The stories about awesome gambling incomes that I find believable involve horses, poker, or sports betting on an industrial scale with kickbacks, cheating, or Macau.

My impression is that people count cards because they love the challenge and they love the live BJ game. I admit I am not well informed on the subject, but it seems like counting is a big opportunity cost compared to what intelligent motivated people could earn in the real world or on other forms of gambling. I would not even be overly impressed by an individual making $4M after expenses in their gambling career.

[moo321]

out of business because of too many barrings?

This is a myth. People like James Grosjean and Tommy Hyland are still making a living playing blackjack.

[G Man]

They aren't 23 yo spreading $25-$1000
But as usual, you will answer to make sure you get the last word.

[21forme]

And they aren't playing BJ; at least Grosjean isn't.

[Archvaldor]

I have not read the book, but I have read many stories about blackjack teams for a long time. None of the amounts won per team member are very impressive. Even the MIT team doesn't seem to have made that much money and it probably got harder after they exposed so many of the practices. I believe the real pioneers in the field of counting made a lot of money, but I don't know anyone personally who claims to have made significant money counting. And I know dozens of professional gamblers.

The stories about awesome gambling incomes that I find believable involve horses, poker, or sports betting on an industrial scale with kickbacks, cheating, or Macau.

My impression is that people count cards because they love the challenge and they love the live BJ game. I admit I am not well informed on the subject, but it seems like counting is a big opportunity cost compared to what intelligent motivated people could earn in the real world or on other forms of gambling. I would not even be overly impressed by an individual making $4M after expenses in their gambling career.

I have a different issue with the blackjack team stories. In every case I can think off offhand they had a large amount of money from somewhere else. Finance, inherited wealth, angel investor money, old-time games etc.

Most people simply cannot access that type of money. Expenses are absolutely crippling in the developmental state of initial bankroll growth.

[OnlineAP]

I have a different issue with the blackjack team stories. In every case I can think off offhand they had a large amount of money from somewhere else. Finance, inherited wealth, angel investor money, old-time games etc.

Most people simply cannot access that type of money. Expenses are absolutely crippling in the developmental state of initial bankroll growth.

Good point. I tend to forget that I was really broke until I was 28 year old. I had put myself through college and grad school and I wouldn't have been able to put together a $1000 bankroll until I was 30. My first Blackjack was at a $3 table in 1985. I had a $100K bankroll from my tech job before I started playing video poker for income. I ran really bad at VP for the first three years, but a $10K bankroll still would have sufficed. The edges were huge. You cannot get a big edge in BJ without being able to put out the big bets at the right time and then not tilt when things do turn out right. I don't think I would have been a good candidate for BJA even if the tuition was gifted to me.

[moo321]

They aren't 23 yo spreading $25-$1000

So, you haven't read his books?