Where I disagree with Don is that those who fail cannot go to the forum and post their failures. Those with regrets about quitting careers or college to play BAj full time cannot share their regrets. Colin monitors and bans people on his forums quickly.
I agree that it is entirely subjective, but I subjectively will not be dumping $3k from my bankroll to pay for a meetup with other APs- you can usually get that for free, or if you want a test out, you can drop someone a small fee. I agree that if this class was being taught be Chang or Duchacht, it may be worth it. I attended a BJ Science class taught by Semyon, and it was one of the most important afternoons of my young life.
Of all the blackjack books I have read so far,,, his book has been the least helpful.. His 'system' is Hi-Lo, nothing earth shattering there. On one hand he tells you to push max bets as much as possible, go for the throat and force the casino to back you off, no cover plays and yet somehow you are expected to get in hundred of hours of playing time.. Hmmm.. Yeah,, I guess he was just lucky in getting some massive variance that allowed him to just take off with a $2,500 bankroll. It seems so easy.. Sorry... not buying it.. In one video he hypes everything and the next video it's him telling you how bad it is being an AP and the low chances of making a living from it. Amazing... He is probably making a lot more in his new business than he ever made in blackjack.. Wish him and everyone the best in what they do but I can buy a real blackjack book, get a copy of the CBJN for $17.00 and do some google searchs for casino research for a lot less than $500.00 a year. But he has his following and I wish them all the best..
My game has evolved significantly over the years. Very little if anything I do would be tolerated in a Colin Jones boot camp - and I don’t really give a shit. My spreads vary based on the importance of the store to me - and what is important is also subject to variables.Originally Posted by VonDox
And yet, despite my “shortcomings”, my returns surpass expectations. If anyone recalls, I stated earlier this year my goals for the year - goals which have been achieved and for which the reward has now been planned. I’ve replaced my one time knock it out of the ballpark strategy per session in favour of maximizing revenue over n sessions. As I’ve also previously stated, I’ve worked diligently over the past few years by reducing my average win and further reducing by a greater percentage my average loss to the inverse of my average win all the while maintaining a high win rate - the effect on overall dollar win being significant. I would encourage others to learn advanced strategies, the execution of which mask skill level and yet greatly contribute to hourlies beyond simmed values.
It’s a shame I no longer keep accurate records, however it seems to me that my November results pretty much mirror my pace over the course of the year. Play is 10-20 hours per month likely ending at 180 hours for the full year.
Hi, I’m new here. Just getting back into blackjack. This was a long thread to read! I too had similar questions about the whole BJA program and boot camp, for the same reasons mentioned by people above: his own results don’t seem that great, he seems way too slick in the marketing, and he makes it seem like there’s a 90% success rate when really, as one poster said, it most likely is closer to 1% (I agree).
But the one thing that really struck me when I watched some of his videos, which while informative, didn’t really teach me much new, was how he would say “don’t back yourself off!”, as if this is some kind of sage advice. Personally, this seems to go completely against everything I once knew about the game. My idol was Ian Andersen after I read Turning the Tables on Las Vegas years ago. After reading Burning the Tables (just yesterday in fact), I’m more amazed than ever at his play. Is he perhaps the cover champion of them all? Playing nearly half a century at the highest stakes without ever getting barred, that’s what I idolize. I don’t admire playing without any cover and getting barred right and left like BJA recommends.
I don’t really have an opinion about whether the course Colin offers gives good instruction about how to count cards in general (it well might), or whether it is actually a good deal price-wise (compared to buying the books and software and making your own damn flash cards). But as far as his advice to not give an inch and to never “back yourself off”, I couldn’t disagree more.
That is in fact why I posted, just today, another thread entitled “Philosophy of Cover”, which was about this exact issue. I didn’t know about this thread already being here or I would have just posted my question here. And now that I’ve read this entire thread and all the great posts in it, I would have to say that I realize there are many level of expertise and attitude amongst all the members here, and as a new member I appreciate all the viewpoints. In particular, on this issue, I thought the posts of G Man, Chaconne, DSchles, houyi, Freighman and bjarg were particularly good. Thanks.
Blackjack Apprenticeship is good. You can probably learn the things they teach from a bunch of books, videos, and posting on forums. That doesn't make it a bad product. People pay $1000 for professional seminars and conferences all the time. I would gladly pay $5000 for a James Grosjean seminar.
People who complain about "slick marketing" are either naive or improperly emotional. They're running a business. They have to market it. This is the kind of thing you hear from people who have never run a business. Or else their feelings are hurt because someone is monetizing something they don't think should be monetized. Who cares if someone monetizes card counting? No one owns it, and casinos deserve to be pounded for the way most of them treat customers.
I don't know that Ian Anderson actually won a lot of money at blackjack. James Grosjean has, and he uses phrases like "sometimes naked is the best disguise." Card counting is neither a strong nor rare game. It doesn't need to be protected as expensively as many think. You certainly shouldn't be doing silly things like artificially playing a low spread (one of the worst forms of cover) for a simple count game.
The Cash Cow.
Hey ya’ll I haven’t read blackjack apprenticeship but have subscribed for its mentorship as an aspiring AP.
Before I started playing land based with serious money - $300 max bet, I read blackjack for blood by Bryce Carlson and have a lot of success with it even on 2:1 spreads.
I practiced for 3 months online with low amounts of money to start to; learn basic strategy PERFECTLY, then count - Omega 2.
Then I moved onto the advanced omega 2 with a side count of aces ( the real valuable AP )
I played 3-4 times a week in land based casinos with good rules ( S17, 75% penetration, 3:2 blackjack, double after split and split aces 2 or 3 times )
Honestly…. I won too much to start. I didn’t leave the casino down for 2 months in land based. Then when I couldn’t leave positive my ego got the best of me, started betting too much, played longer than the recommended time - 6 hours in one day, and even tried to rely on sides and lost $4,000 that day. Had built $2,000 into $9,000 in a month.
The math recommends at least 40 MAX bets as a bankroll for a weekend and 125.
Okay so I was down to 5k I’d make it back slowly. Next time I played I it all. But not because the system is faulty but because of not following the system always expecting to leave on top.
You all probably are much less arrogant than I am so don’t have this problem. I thought I fixed my unrealistic expectation until recently I started played lucky ladies at an AP and lo and behold I got lucky ladies dealer blackjack with $10 on the bet. My $2000 bank roll I had recently built up after my big loss turned into $10,000 in a split second. The worst thing that could have happened to me I found out in a few days. I don’t know how many hands I’ve played. I know BJA simulation says 1250 hands and I only recently started playing sides the past 3 months and I don’t play it even at AP every hand. I have a full time job and wife so I’m not in the casino night and day. I think it’s safe to say I was well under the 1250 hands dealt at a casino offering the ladies. The other casino I play at doesn’t offer it.
Playing with my higher bank roll started out as planned and right after winning the ladies dbj I made $300 with a $150 max bet. Then my arrogance came back and then I even started to always expect to get lucky ladies when previously I didn’t even care and just cared about my EV and if I got a side at AP it was like a bonus.
That all said I ended up losing my whole 10k bankroll in the matter of a week because of playing the sides and not just leaving if I was down a couple hundred after a days session ( 6 hours ) couple hundred much better than few thousand or more.
This all probably seems very logical which I know and knew. Winning the amount of money in that short of time can affect you greatly. For me this is the largest benefit of BJA. It’s a modern forum with a modern professional. The most important part of my play now is the mindset of this being an investment. I might play perfectly all day sometime and not have a positive day. Chalking it up as a loss, leaving, going home to my wife and going back another day is much better than losing everything and not having a bank roll. So many times I’ve had to save up for a couple weeks because I was too stubborn to leave a little down or even not as positive as I wanted to be. Most of the time I went back and had a good day. Yesterday I played 4 hours of AP with a 4:1 spread $20 unit $80 max bet, good rules and gained $500.
The other point here is to not give up if being an AP is what you want to do.
I’d recommend a more advanced system like the advanced omega 2 and verifying your skills with the software casino verite. The drills are great as well as the simulation. Nothing like the real thing though. Managing your emotions with real money, potential heat, other players ( gamblers ) that might get pissed that their losing and you’re winning or that you’re getting the sides but not playing them while they aren’t getting them and playing them a lot putting a lot on it.
The software has many different count systems to choose from to verify your skills. The advanced omega 2 with ideal 8:1 spread has advantage of .7% on 6 deck game, good rules, 75% or greater pen. I like Bryce being a previous corporate professional with mba and extremely analytical. Recommends 125 max bets as ideal bankroll. He also recently proved that craps could not be beaten as response when asked stating and showing verification that the laws of physics do not allow for dice control to minimize the amount of 7’s rolled.
125 max bets at 8:1 spread would equal greater than $2k obviously. 15k for a $15 unit and $120 max. Not that you can’t or shouldn’t start with less. If you lose the 2k, save up, verify your skills on casino verite in the meantime and get back to it. Any investment has risk. I also invest in the stock market on individual stocks and even the best stocks have very large dips. I subscribe to the paid subscription of seeking alpha to get the best recommendations and also to verify those recommendations from analysts with easy access to the most granular details of a stock - PE, price per cash flow, BET, etc…. there’s dozens. Much more items to consider before choosing a stock than AP has before placing a bet.
It’s also helped me in my personal life getting me much better at managing expenses. Having no kids and making 150k+ base salary plus bonus, no student loans ( ever ) and all the best benefits as a senior software engineer gives you a lot of room to be liberal with spending. AP play does not give you room to be liberal with your bets and bank roll at the casino lol.
Last edited by BlackjackGod9; 10-07-2024 at 07:09 PM.
Personally, I think Blackjack Apprenticeship (BJA) is a solid resource, but Colin's heavy promotion in The 21st Century Card Counter felt a bit much—it came off more like a sales pitch than a balanced guide. The program is great for learning card counting, but the success stories seem too rosy and don’t reflect the real grind of card counting.
I find the Church Team’s results ($3 million over six years) decent, but for their bankroll, I expected more. As for the stories of starting with small bankrolls, I’m skeptical. In my experience, it’s more luck than skill to grow $1,000 into something significant, and that side of the story isn’t discussed enough.
Overall, while BJA has value, I'd advise caution—it’s not as easy or glamorous as it might appear.
Some years ago I made a decent amount of money selling books and digital information about gambling. You can have a quite good salary with very high quality of life just doing that if you write enough books. But it became apparent to me that however much you told people about the fluctuations and how difficult the whole thing can be, people didn't care, and often blew up their bankroll doing dumb shit.
Pretty much everyone I have ever spoken to about this said "That's not your problem. You gave them good advice what they do with that is up to them". But the reality is I was part of the process that sent a lot of people into financial distress. Many people got rich and I was part of that process also but in my opinion that does not compensate. That's the reality of teaching people AP: your profits come primarily from people who bought into a beautiful dream not the actuality.
I don't judge others for selling quality information, it was my personal decision to quit. But I do find it utterly despicable that someone would encourage desperate people to gamble small bankrolls like this. It is bad enough if you just do it out of ignorance but AP's know exactly how dangerous that is. As for this guy being a Christian-this type of individual is what gets the church a bad name. Even branches of Christianity which do not specifically forbid gambling do not endorse the exploitation of the poor under any circumstances.
Last edited by Archvaldor; 10-11-2024 at 05:06 AM.
People who have businesses and products advertise those products. They do this all the time and no one complains. Oprah has people on to hawk books all the time. Norm sells his software here. Because there wouldn't be a here without that product being sold. This is basic capitalism.
The Cash Cow.
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