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Thread: Losing the Count - Confusing Dealer's Up Card with Down Card

  1. #1
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    Losing the Count - Confusing Dealer's Up Card with Down Card

    Hi Everyone, I hope all is well.


    I assume the vast majority of us count the dealer's up card as soon as it is dealt.

    Please explain how you do not confuse the up card with the dealers hole card at the end of the hand?



    I have been using the KO count in Atlantic City for four years and I only count the dealer's up card at the end of the hand.
    I never confuse the up card with the hole card this way.

    Also, I realize I need to count the up card at times when deviating
    from basic strategy such as when to take insurance or stand 12 against a 2, etc.

  2. #2


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    You start counting only after dealer begins the dealing of the second car. So, assuming the first guy has a 4 and gets a 10 card, count is zero, second guy has a 6, gets 5 on it, count is plus 2, third guy gets a queen dealt on his first card which is a king, count goes back to Zero. Dealer has an 8 showing. Count is still Zero.

    Now, you start counting as each player makes a decision and account any card that is dealt. When it comes to the dealer, you count the hole card as he flips it and then each card thereafter. This is for HiLo but the same procedure goes for your count.

    If it’s a face down game, you start with your own hand and then count the dealers up card.

    Now, if you use a side count, Freightman can chip in with his renowned, easy and enjoyable way of side counting.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mets View Post
    Hi Everyone, I hope all is well.


    I assume the vast majority of us count the dealer's up card as soon as it is dealt.

    Please explain how you do not confuse the up card with the dealers hole card at the end of the hand?


    Use your short term memory. As soon as the up card is revealed, taught yourself the upcard is XX. Then when it is side by side with the downcard later, you won't confuse which card is the upcard.

  4. #4


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Mets View Post
    Please explain how you do not confuse the up card with the dealers hole card at the end of the hand?


    I have been using the KO count in Atlantic City for four years and I only count the dealer's up card at the end of the hand.
    I never confuse the up card with the hole card this way.
    Frequently, the way you have played your hand will let you know which card was the up-card. If not, you should know the pattern the dealer uses. Watch enough hands to determine the pattern the dealer uses when multiple cards are drawn.
    Ah you loved me as a loser, but now you're worried that I just might win
    You know the way to stop me, but you don't have the discipline - Leonard Cohen

  5. #5


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    You need to pay more attention to the game. You may notice higher EV plays as you do.

  6. #6


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Mets View Post
    Please explain how you do not confuse the up card with the dealers hole card at the end of the hand?
    While no procedure applies universally to EVERY blackjack-dealing procedure, I'd guess that 99% of dealers in shoe games flip their hole card to THEIR LEFT of the upcard and then continue to hit, if necessary, to the RIGHT of the original upcard. So, from the player's viewpoint, if you hadn't seen any of the above, and all the dealer's cards were lying on the table, the one to YOUR far right would be the hole card.

    Finally, there's little of more interest to you as a player than to see what the dealer's hole card is as he/she flips it. Aren't you looking at it?

    Don

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post

    Now, if you use a side count, Freightman can chip in with his renowned, easy and enjoyable way of side counting.
    Zee
    Thank you for the referral.
    Subtlety is key when using the FBM ASC. Of course, ASC efficiency can be increased when wearing shorts, boxer shorts and of course, pocket holes. As most men dress left, it is customary to commence with the left hand and systemically place one finger per ace displayed on the left nut. The process is repeated twice to account for the first 10 aces displayed.

    Upon display of the 10th ace, the left hand is withdrawn and replaced with the right, simply repeating the prior noted procedure

    Now, a deft and exciting opportunity is now available. Eye hand coordination is paramount. As the left hand is being removed, the index finger is held firmly at that point where the leg meets the torso. As the finger moves across the point described, ball sweat permeates the epidermal layer of the index finger and is then subtly moved under the nose. The ball scent generated stimulates arterial blood flow thus acting as a stimulus to the neural pathways resulting in much increased decision making speed.

    Of course, initial hand choice may be altered to suit the practitioner and to account for factors. I trust this will serve as an initial introduction to the regaled FBM ASC.
    .

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Zee
    Thank you for the referral.
    Subtlety is key when using the FBM ASC. Of course, ASC efficiency can be increased when wearing shorts, boxer shorts and of course, pocket holes. As most men dress left, it is customary to commence with the left hand and systemically place one finger per ace displayed on the left nut. The process is repeated twice to account for the first 10 aces displayed.

    Upon display of the 10th ace, the left hand is withdrawn and replaced with the right, simply repeating the prior noted procedure

    Now, a deft and exciting opportunity is now available. Eye hand coordination is paramount. As the left hand is being removed, the index finger is held firmly at that point where the leg meets the torso. As the finger moves across the point described, ball sweat permeates the epidermal layer of the index finger and is then subtly moved under the nose. The ball scent generated stimulates arterial blood flow thus acting as a stimulus to the neural pathways resulting in much increased decision making speed.

    Of course, initial hand choice may be altered to suit the practitioner and to account for factors. I trust this will serve as an initial introduction to the regaled FBM ASC.
    .
    Zee
    It’s a good think I proofread. If not, I would have been embarrassed for the last sentence to have read “I trust this will serve as an Italian introduction to the regaled FBM ASC.”

  9. #9


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    If this is a problem, you aren't ready for live casino play.

  10. #10


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    It’s a good think I proofread
    Not so obvious here.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Not so obvious here.
    Seems I didn’t proofread my add on comment

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    While no procedure applies universally to EVERY blackjack-dealing procedure, I'd guess that 99% of dealers in shoe games flip their hole card to THEIR LEFT of the upcard and then continue to hit, if necessary, to the RIGHT of the original upcard. So, from the player's viewpoint, if you hadn't seen any of the above, and all the dealer's cards were lying on the table, the one to YOUR far right would be the hole card.

    Finally, there's little of more interest to you as a player than to see what the dealer's hole card is as he/she flips it. Aren't you looking at it?

    Don
    General question:

    After dealing the first card to the players, does the dealer

    1.) draw his first card (upcard) face up immediately, and after dealing the second card to the players draw his own second card (hole card) face down and beneath the upcard, or

    2.) draw his upcard face down initially, and only later (after dealing the second card to the players) turns up his upcard using the (face down) hole card?
    Last edited by PinkChip; 08-14-2020 at 09:53 AM.

  13. #13


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkChip View Post
    General question: after dealing the first card to the players, does the dealer draw his first card (upcard) face up immediately and after dealing the second card to the players draw his own second card (hole card) face down and beneath the upcard, or

    2.) does he draw his upcard face down initially, and only later turns up his upcard using the (face down) hole card?
    My locale is primarily NHC (not ENHC). Most stores have a procedure that is not necessarily standard across all stores. I’ve also noted many times that individual dealers do not necessarily follow store protocol. I always watch a new dealer specifically to follow what they are doing in this regard,

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