What do you think of this team play story. (as posted on FB)

[Jack Jackson]

If they conclude you are card counting as a team in this manner, then you will get to find out if its legal in court, and unlike card counting which is a nuisance, using a device is a felony.

And I believe the definition of a device is broad enough that anything from a pencil to a laptop might be qualified.

I agree that if its proven the players are being helped, then it's cheating/illegal. But if it's only being used to watch play, then it isn't. That burden of illegality is on the gaming commission though.

Kinda Makes Me Wonder, why all Blackjack games haven't went to CSM's...

[ZeeBabar]

Kinda Makes Me Wonder, why all Blackjack games haven't went to CSM's...

Because the casinos also make a great deal of money off card counters too. I would guess about 5-10% of card counters are successful.

[21forme]

Kinda Makes Me Wonder, why all Blackjack games haven't went to CSM's...

All BJ games haven't gone to CSMs because many ploppies don't trust them and refuse to play them.

[Freightman]

Because the casinos also make a great deal of money off card counters too. I would guess about 5-10% of card counters are successful.

Percentage of successful counters really varies depending on your version of what describes a counter. First, given a pretty tight description, most reasonably competent counters will succeed to some degree. Those who fail are mostly underfunded, the rest tapping out for a variety of reasons.

Now, a very loose description of what describes a counter, increases geometrically the quantity of counters, with probably a 99% failure rate. That loose description includes all kinds of lousy systems telling all kinds of people when and how to vary bets - mostly all without enough spread to beat the game. Further, almost all of these players don’t understand index play, and for that matter, many play without a perfect understanding of basic strategy.

I’ve met all kinds of counters, probably far more than most (based in various forum comments). Skill level varied. I even asked one guy if he played red 7 or KO. When he asked how I knew, I said I guessed based on slow ramp (advantage shows up later). I’ve spotted shuffle trackers, ace locators, good and bad counters - bad including possible members of the Law of Small Minds Fraternity. My favourite spot was a party pit spot where the girlfriend spread $10 To $60, while the boyfriend spread $50-$200 FREQUENTLY socializing while drinking. I recall saying to him - let’s see now, she jabs you in the ribs when the side count is right, you re side counting aces for sure and possibly 7’s, you’re talking when sitting out In bad counts etc. Bad counters do all kinds of silly things.

So, again - what describes a counter

[PinkChip]

In Europe, nearly all games seem to have gone CSM, because the average people here have absolutely no knowledge of the game (not even rule variations like soft doubling or surrender, if available at all) and ploppies do not mind the machines.

[Freightman]

Zee Bond in action

https://youtu.be/V31rpJXbse4

[Jack Jackson]

All BJ games haven't gone to CSMs because many ploppies don't trust them and refuse to play them.

I def. have to agree with this. Lets then keep reminding those ploppies how the Casinos Rig these devices in their favor

Because the casinos also make a great deal of money off card counters too. I would guess about 5-10% of card counters are successful.

YUP!

Percentage of successful counters really varies depending on your version of what describes a counter. First, given a pretty tight description, most reasonably competent counters will succeed to some degree. Those who don’t fail mostly due to underfunding, the balance tapping out for a variety of reasons.

Now, a very loose description of what describes a counter, increases geometrically the quantity of counters, with probably a 99% failure rate. That loose description includes all kinds of lousy systems telling all kinds of people when and how to vary bets - mostly all without enough spread to beat the game. Further, almost all of these players don’t understand index play, and for that matter, many play without a perfect understanding of basic strategy.

I’ve met all kinds of counters, probably far more than most (based in various forum comments). Skill level varied. I even asked one guy if he played red 7 or KO. When he asked how I knew, I said I guessed based on slow ramp (advantage shows up later). I’ve spotted shuffle trackers, ace locators, good and bad counters - bad including possible members of the Law of Small Minds Fraternity. My favourite spot was a party pit spot where the girlfriend spread $10 To $60, while the boyfriend spread $50-$200 FREQUENTLY socializing while drinking. I recall saying to him - let’s see now, she jabs you in the ribs when the side count is right, you re side counting aces for sure and possibly 7’s, you’re talking when sitting out In bad counts etc. Bad counters do all kinds of silly things.

So, again - what describes a counter

I think you pretty much summed it up there. And ya of course, theres really no black and white area here..All Counters will vary, between their Skill set, Bankroll, Longevity and how much money they do or dont win. Futhermore, i really dont know the "bottom line" that counters have to cross in order to get themselves banned. It seems some counters get banned the first time, while others can hide out for years with or without drawing any suspicion. I Guess alot really has to do with that particular Casino. So therefore, it really should be left in the counters hands as to which casino he plays at, how long and how much he should play for.

[Freightman]

I think you pretty much summed it up there. And ya of course, theres really no black and white area here..All Counters will vary, between their Skill set, Bankroll, Longevity and how much money they do or dont win. Futhermore, i really dont know the "bottom line" that counters have to cross in order to get themselves banned. It seems some counters get banned the first time, while others can hide out for years with or without drawing any suspicion. I Guess alot really has to do with that particular Casino. So therefore, it really should be left in the counters hands as to which casino he plays at, how long and how much he should play for.

Pretty much summing it up, or seeing the big picture is a flaw of mine. I’ve made a pretty good living doing exactly that. Not always appreciated though judging by the support I’ve received from The Law of Small Minds Fraternity.

As far as being banned is concerned, sooner or later, most of us will get the boot somewhere. Longevity depends on a number of factors. If you’re a cheap asshole moving your lips with the count as your eyeballs scan the table and making money, you won’t last long. If you’re robotic to the count jumping 1x25 to 2x300 back to 1x25 over 3 hands, you won’t last long. If you’re careless and not being discreet while utilizing the FBM ASC, you won’t last long.

Now, if you are discreet and patient, expertly utilizing the FBM ASC Advanced with Dual Ramp betting structures , you will last a very long time. Most of my back offs have been based on cumulative winnings. Unable to hide much of that as much of my play is heads up.

At 21forme’s request, I will produce a general outline later today of the FBM ASC both Basic and Advanced. Per his request, I will endeavour to produce a minimum 100 line treatise.

[Freightman]

Freighter, sounds like you are condoning shoestring bankrolls, and high risk, please correct the above.

Done. Thanks for pointing out.

[Stealth]

Point is, is there any law, not casino policy, that forbids taking video of your play in a casino?

Again, it is a FELONY in Nevada to use any "machine" while playing a table game.