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Thread: Desireabitily index, rounds per hour, calculation

  1. #53


    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "So yes, your good friend Don is a troll. That is what he's been for years. Everyone knows it. Few speak up about it. I'm glad to say exactly this because I don't care."

    "Everyone knows it"? Have you lost your f**king mind? You have a f**king enormous pair of balls to come in here on your high horse and make baseless, asinine accusations as a party of one. I asked the simplest of questions: what does an abbreviation that I didn't recognize, HPR, mean? And when I pointed out to you that we don't abbreviate words by using the last letter in them, you got your panties in a bunch.

    Do us all a favor and get the f**k out of here. Crawl back under the rock you crawled out from. And continue being the two-faced sellout to the casino community that you are. No one will miss you here. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

    I've been on forums and in the blackjack community for 45 years, and I've met my share of assholes along the way. But you're in a special category -- the first one in 45 years to call me a troll.

    Do us all a favor: disappear.

    Don

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "So yes, your good friend Don is a troll. That is what he's been for years. Everyone knows it. Few speak up about it. I'm glad to say exactly this because I don't care."

    "Everyone knows it"? Have you lost your f**king mind? You have a f**king enormous pair of balls to come in here on your high horse and make baseless, asinine accusations as a party of one. I asked the simplest of questions: what does an abbreviation that I didn't recognize, HPR, mean? And when I pointed out to you that we don't abbreviate words by using the last letter in them, you got your panties in a bunch.

    Do us all a favor and get the f**k out of here. Crawl back under the rock you crawled out from. And continue being the two-faced sellout to the casino community that you are. No one will miss you here. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

    I've been on forums and in the blackjack community for 45 years, and I've met my share of assholes along the way. But you're in a special category -- the first one in 45 years to call me a troll.

    Do us all a favor: disappear.

    Don
    More trolling.

    My future here is entirely up to Norm.
    Last edited by Eliot; 05-24-2020 at 08:56 PM.

  3. #55


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot View Post
    Okay, I have no idea what you are talking about. I respect you beyond measure for what you have contributed over the years.

    My take here is that Don has been trolling me. I don't know why. But he has been doing exactly that. Trolls are those who invade threads, side track them onto some irrelevant topic where they can attempt to show someone is wrong about something having nothing to do with the topic of the thread. They use the usual tactics, in base and sad ways, but in the end, just look pathetic to the objective observer.

    So yes, your good friend Don is a troll. That is what he's been for years. Everyone knows it. Few speak up about it. I'm glad to say exactly this because I don't care. I have no dogs in this race, your forum means very little to me except to the extent that I can answer questions directed towards my work in honest and straightforward ways, providing valuable content.

    Your choice, content or trolls.

    So that's about it. Either ban me and delete everything I've posted, or give me some protection from trolls. Or maybe, as Ghandi, find a third way.

    I have a lot to share, I'm glad to answer questions, always have been. But, to be attacked randomly just to score points with some fictitious community ... well, that is not subtext.

    Think about how you have reacted when you have been attacked in threads on various websites. Is it worth it for me to be here and try and give something to you?

    Peace, friend.
    Eliot, don't put Norm between a rock and a hard place. The same goes for you, Don.

    I surely don't think that Don's comment about HPR could be considered any kind of serious trolling. It is just Don's nature to correct spelling errors. He does it all the time. Some folks think he over does it, but a blackjack forum requires a thick skin.

    Eliot, I believe you have a lot to offer and would like you to stay. You know many years ago over at BJ21 Don gave Stanford Wong and ultimatum. I believe it was about a posting of all places on the politics page and he demanded that Wong ban the member or he would leave and never come back. Really the poster did nothing to be banned for and Don left in a huff and never came back for many years. Of course with all his knowledge gone the forum suffered.

    By the way, Norm pulled the same thing. I can't remember what it was about, but again if Wong didn't do something he said he was going to refuse to let Wong sell his products. Wong held his ground and Norm pulled his products. The forum suffered.

    Now you and Don are putting Norm in the same situation. BOTH OF YOU DON'T ESCALATE THIS ANYMORE.

  4. #56


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "So yes, your good friend Don is a troll. That is what he's been for years. Everyone knows it. Few speak up about it. I'm glad to say exactly this because I don't care."

    "Everyone knows it"? Have you lost your f**king mind? You have a f**king enormous pair of balls to come in here on your high horse and make baseless, asinine accusations as a party of one. I asked the simplest of questions: what does an abbreviation that I didn't recognize, HPR, mean? And when I pointed out to you that we don't abbreviate words by using the last letter in them, you got your panties in a bunch.

    Do us all a favor and get the f**k out of here. Crawl back under the rock you crawled out from. And continue being the two-faced sellout to the casino community that you are. No one will miss you here. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

    I've been on forums and in the blackjack community for 45 years, and I've met my share of assholes along the way. But you're in a special category -- the first one in 45 years to call me a troll.

    Do us all a favor: disappear.

    Don
    Don, I'm no expert on this, but I have followed Eliot closely, and I'm pretty sure I've listened to all his podcasts. I see nothing that indicates he's "selling out" to casinos. He's a mathematician and he calculates the odds for the games so either side can use them. What's wrong with that? That's as objective as you can get. That's how Eliot has always stated it, and it makes sense to me.

    Personally, I think Max Rubin is more of a "sell out", if that's what you want to call it. I've researched the Blackjack Hall of Fame fairly extensively, and it was started by Max Rubin as more or less a tourist trap to attack more people into his casino, Barona. He started it when he had started managing Barona. I don't blame Max for doing this. But lets call it what it is: BJHF is a great marketing tool Max uses as another way to get customers into his casino so he can make money off them.

    It's ironic that Max Rubin uses the BJHF as a way to get people into his casinos, but he doesn't allow counters, even though his casino honors them in it's BJHF. Talk about a double standard. I know people who have been backed off at Barona. It was a pleasant backoff, but they still got backed off. This means Max Rubin only wants losing players. I though this is one of the complaints APs have with casinos. They only want losers. Well Barona is no different than any other casino, but somehow Max gets a pass by the AP crowd.

    I've always respected casinos, even when I've been backed off, because they are just doing their job. If I was in their shoes, I'd do the same thing.

    Why can't we respect people working on both sides, on the AP side and the casino side? I'm fine with Eliot and Max working on the casino side. A casino is a legitimate legal business. Why do people think one side is better than the other? Both sides have good guys, and bad apples.

    Just my two cents worth. I'll probably be called stupid by someone. But I'm used to it, since this is what APs do, when they don't agree with you.
    Last edited by Dbs6582; 05-24-2020 at 09:35 PM.

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Eliot, don't put Norm between a rock and a hard place. The same goes for you, Don.
    I entered this thread and gave substantial information to address the questions by the OP. Then Don came along to troll me. Then he escalated when I called him out on his trolling.

    For the record, I was Phil Ivey's expert witness against Crockford's Casino. I was the expert witness for the State of Florida against the Seminole Indian Tribe and their casino holdings in Florida. I was up on the stand against Kilby on the other side. I spent 20 years telling casinos to let card counters play. So this "I sold out to casinos" is bullshit.

    If Norm doesn't like me calling Don a troll, he can ban me.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

    "In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] either for the troll's amusement or a specific gain."

    Don is a troll, plain and simple.
    Last edited by Eliot; 05-24-2020 at 10:01 PM.

  6. #58


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot View Post
    In general blackjack card counting is among the least desirable ways to beat a casino. Along with 60 years of experience in identifying and catching card counters, there are the challenges of becoming proficient, the deterioration of the games and the rather wicked variance. I wrote an article discussing this topic here: https://www.888casino.com/blog/seven...er-count-cardsThat said, very few side bets of any type are better, mainly because of the low maximum wagers that are allowed. If you can master the baccarat Pairs bet then that is substantially better than ordinary card counting. Likewise, if you live in England and have access to the UR Way Egalite side bet, then you have a very strong option. But, in general, top players find much better opportunities than to card count anything at all. I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but I still would imagine hole-carding Mississippi Stud, Ultimate Texas Hold'em and similar games are among the strongest choices. Like many things in life, if you have a substantial enough bankroll then even better options are available, some of which I discuss in my book.I continue to wonder why would-be advantage players focus 99% on card counting, a technology that dates back to the 1960's, when the world of advantage play is well into the 21-st century.Kind regards.
    If you are willing to grind, travel, and have a decent BR and are ok with the backoffs and your exposure then - counting can be worthwhile for some. We can mathematically determine ev and ror for a given game and play approach but its up to the individually player whether or not counting, or any other AP venture, is "worth it." Given the proliferation of casinos I would assume that there are still some honey pots out there. Personally my preference is to stay away from straight count games but we all have our own motivations and reasons for playing (or not).

  7. #59


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot View Post
    I entered this thread and gave substantial information to address the questions by the OP. Then Don came along to troll me. Then he escalated when I called him out on his trolling.

    For the record, I was Phil Ivey's expert witness against Crockford's Casino. I was the expert witness for the State of Florida against the Seminole Indian Tribe and their casino holdings in Florida. I was up on the stand against Kilby on the other side. I spent 20 years telling casinos to let card counters play. So this "I sold out to casinos" is bullshit.

    If Norm doesn't like me calling Don a troll, he can ban me.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

    "In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] either for the troll's amusement or a specific gain."

    Don is a troll, plain and simple.
    Look, Eliot. You are probably an okay guy but the fact is that Don has corrected many many people as regards language, grammar, etc. Most dont mind and some learned something about language and idiom from his comments. There are also a lot of us who were helped by Don as relates to BJ and math research and he continues to help us find answers.

    I would suspect that many would quit this forum in protest if Don is banned from this forum and there would be near unanimous agreement that he should not be banned. If Norm was to take a poll of which one of you should be banned, you don’t stand a chance.

    In this thread, you over reacted to his correction and how it makes Sense to use HPH instead of HPR. Now, either just let this thing die or quit the forum. Your demanding he be banned is simply not fair to Norm.

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Look, Eliot. You are probably an okay guy but the fact is that Don has corrected many many people as regards language, grammar, etc. Most dont mind and some learned something about language and idiom from his comments. There are also a lot of us who were helped by Don as relates to BJ and math research and he continues to help us find answers.

    I would suspect that many would quit this forum in protest if Don is banned from this forum and there would be near unanimous agreement that he should not be banned. If Norm was to take a poll of which one of you should be banned, you don’t stand a chance.

    In this thread, you over reacted to his correction and how it makes Sense to use HPH instead of HPR. Now, either just let this thing die or quit the forum. Your demanding he be banned is simply not fair to Norm.
    I did not ask that he be banned. I just want him to stop trolling me. Digressing a thread into grammatical corrections is the very definition of trolling. He is wrong about HPR, it is in widespread use in the industry, but never mind that. He is just a troll and that's the end of the story.
    Last edited by Eliot; 05-24-2020 at 10:34 PM.

  9. #61


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot View Post
    I did not ask that he be banned. I just want him to stop trolling me. Digressing a thread into grammatical corrections is the very definition of trolling. He is wrong about HPR, it is in widespread use in the industry, but never mind that. He is just a troll and that's the end of the story.
    Eliot, I have been on this forum only a few years and I would bet that I have been called a troll by more people, more often than Don has in all the years he has been on all the forums he has been on. It’s one area I have had greater success than has Don or most others. Obviously then, Here, you would be the only one holding that opinion that he is a troll. In any case, let’s just drop this...

  10. #62
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Thread doesn't appear to be useful to he community -- just divisive. Thread closed.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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