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Thread: Number of hands to play

  1. #1


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    Number of hands to play

    1. In Professional Blackjack and BJA3, playing heads up, we should play 1 hand until we're capped by table max, then we spread to 2. When I compare the sims in cvcx, playing one hand heads up doesn't seem to generate the same EV as playing 2 hands, heads up, at a true 2

    I believe the spread at the time was:
    1x75
    2x75
    2x150
    2x225
    2x300
    2x375

    Compared to
    1x75
    1x100
    1x200
    1x300
    1x400
    1x500

    When playing 2 hands, each individual bet would be 75% of what the corresponding single-hand hand is below it.

    So, for example, at a true six or higher, I should play 2 hands of 375 or 1 hand of 500.

    The results are playing 200 rounds per hour, h17, das, rsa, sr, using hi low variant, I get:

    170 an hour playing 2 hands at 1.8%RoR compared to

    130 an hour playing 1 hand at 2.1% RoR


    Both books claim more EV is to be made by playing 1 hand.

    Even when I boost the 1-hand sim to 225 rph I get 145 an hour.


    Any ideas on what option i could be forgetting about?
    Last edited by Nitram; 04-30-2020 at 03:55 PM.

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitram View Post
    1. In Professional Blackjack and BJA3, playing heads up, we should play 1 hand until we're capped by table max, then we spread to 2. When I compare the sims in cvcx, playing one hand heads up doesn't seem to generate the same EV as playing 2 hands, heads up, at a true 2

    I believe the spread at the time was:
    1x75
    2x75
    2x150
    2x225
    2x300
    2x375

    Compared to
    1x75
    1x100
    1x200
    1x300
    1x400
    1x500

    When playing 2 hands, each individual bet would be 75% of what the corresponding single-hand hand is below it.

    So, for example, at a true six or higher, I should play 2 hands of 375 or 1 hand of 500.

    The results are playing 200 rounds per hour, h17, das, rsa, sr, using hi low variant, I get:

    170 an hour playing 2 hands at 1.8%RoR compared to

    130 an hour playing 1 hand at 2.1% RoR


    Both books claim more EV is to be made by playing 1 hand.

    Even when I boost the 1-hand sim to 225 rph I get 145 an hour.


    Any ideas on what option i could be forgetting about?
    I don't know what you think you would be gaining by playing two hands versus only playing one hand heads up. When playing two hands heads up you are getting 50% more money on the table at the expense of eating up 50% more cards resulting in fewer rounds per shuffle. The increased rounds played per shuffle by playing one hand will also include longer periods of time the good or bad true counts remain versus playing two hands.

  3. #3


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    I don't know what you think you would be gaining by playing two hands versus only playing one hand heads up. When playing two hands heads up you are getting 50% more money on the table at the expense of eating up 50% more cards resulting in fewer rounds per shuffle. The increased rounds played per shuffle by playing one hand will also include longer periods of time the good or bad true counts remain versus playing two hands.
    Yes, that's the point. CVCX won't do that thinking for you and will just play whatever number of rounds per hour you stipulate. So, if you don't make the adjustment for more cards eaten by playing two hands, and the slowing of the process, the comparison is no longer apples to apples.

    Don

  4. #4
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    You must enter the rounds per hour into CVCX because CVCX cannot possibly know how quick you or the dealer are. The variation can be enormous. A sharp player can play two hands nearly as quickly as one. But, the dealer has to deal with the payoffs, and some are super quick, and some.... And that's assuming no other players, and not counting the effect of shuffle time.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Yes, that's the point. CVCX won't do that thinking for you and will just play whatever number of rounds per hour you stipulate. So, if you don't make the adjustment for more cards eaten by playing two hands, and the slowing of the process, the comparison is no longer apples to apples.

    Don
    Is it possible for me to enter these adjustments into CVCX? If so, where?

    Thank you.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitram View Post
    Is it possible for me to enter these adjustments into CVCX? If so, where?

    Thank you.
    At the very top of the second column, just enter the rounds per hour.

    Don

  7. #7


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    So after playing around with CVCX I've found the EV to be the same when playing 1 hand vs 2 hand (where 1 hand will see an increase in rounds per hour). The one thing I've noticed is that RoR is greater when playing 1 hand. I remember reading that playing two hands brings covariance, which lowers risk. So wouldn't an AP be better off playing two hands at a true 2?

    Or is there something I'm forgetting or overlooking?

  8. #8


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    If your two-hand bets are optimal with respect to the one-hand one, the ROR should be the same, as both per-round e.v. and variance increase by the same percentage.

    Don

  9. #9


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    playing 2 hands might be an issue if they use the dividers to limit number of players

  10. #10
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Interesting observation. Depends on how they do the dividers. If they allow each of three players two spots, switching between one and two would be easier as you wouldn't have to worry about someone sitting in.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  11. #11


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    On tables where the partitions come all the way down to the felt playing two spots could be made impossible depending on how they are installed.

  12. #12
    Senior Member BetWise21's Avatar
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    The casinos would benefit, for the most part, to make two spots available, because we all know that most players are not card counters and don’t have a winning game and it would increase their take.


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    "between the conception and the reality, falls the shadow "

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  13. #13


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    I am very worried about not being able to play two hands because of the dividers. If I had to guess I'm going to think they will allow it if possible. From the perspective of the casino they will want to do something to get more action and what better way than to let ploppies play more spots. So, the casino will definitely want to. It's just a matter if they can with the new protocols.

    Playing two spots helped reduce my variance I think (from what I could tell from CVCX). I have a very small bankroll so I would try to use anything to reduce my risk of ruin(etc).

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