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Thread: Cashing out in US as a Canadian

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    According to this article it looks like G Man might be correct. This link appears to be a recovery service like Gronbog mentioned.
    https://ustaxrecovery.com/the-canada-us-tax-treaty/
    From that link :

    " For Canadians (and other non-resident aliens), the gambling winnings tax is 30% of the total win."


    The only way to recover withheld winnings is to demonstrate losses to cover the money withheld. Canadians (while gambling in the US of A) are taxed on net winnings over the calendar year, so if you win 10,000 in a poker tournament and lose $10,000 playing blackjack then your profits are $0 and you can recover the money that has been withheld.

    I think G Man's confusion stems from the fact that blackjack winnings are not withheld by the casino, like a slot win would be. That in no way absolves you of your tax liability to the IRS. And if you are going to cheat on your taxes, I would strongly advise you against bragging about it on a public forum.


    It also isn't exactly true that Canadians do not pay taxes on gambling. The position of the CRA is that professional and semi professional gamblers must file and pay taxes on their winnings. Historically they have been unable to collect in court, because the court is very careful to not allow ordinary Canadians to write off gambling losses as a business expense, but theoretically professional and semi professional gamblers can be taxed on their winnings. The sticking point is that the CRA must prove that the gambler in question has a winning system, a trivial task when it comes to winning blackjack players.
    Last edited by Meistro123; 04-25-2020 at 11:12 PM.

  2. #28


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    Did you at least red my last post?

  3. #29


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    Did you at least red my last post on the tax subject?

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by G Man View Post
    What you're saying is that a libel is only good if it hurts the pockets in terms of $. I don't think so, it could hurts someone reputation really bad and cause prejudice to a player posing as an expert in a disignated field. To follow one of your example, if Norm operates a site that belongs to pro players and use the handle " N Man" operating the "N Man forum" and someone states that the owner of "N Man site" is a fraud, wouldn't you have a libel cause? Just asking, since you are the expert here on this kind of questions.
    1. I am not an expert on these types of questions, but I probably do have more legal/courtroom experience and training than most forum members.

    2. Anyone can file a law suit against anyone else for anything...but that does not mean that the law; case facts and evidence; the opinions of judge and jury; the competence of one's legal counsel (I could go on ad nausem, but I think you get my point) will ensure your case will prevail, or has merit. If a case actually makes it to trial, then the outcome is a crapshoot.

    3. We have moved into arguing hypotheticals...and I have more confidence in the statistics of blackjack than I do in trial verdicts...and neither one of us has the ability to definitively forecast the adjudication of any one actual case, let alone a hypothetical one.

    4. In your example re: "N Man" you have "moved the goal posts" and changed the debate from my example of someone specifically claiming Norm or Don were a tax fraud...to a case where "Norm M" filed a case against someone for generically calling him a fraud (whatever that means)...so we have an apples to oranges comparison. But, ultimately, the majority of libel cases, and the overwhelming majority of civil cases in the US (I can't speak to Canada, I have no knowledge, training, or experience in Canadian law) hinge on proveable financial damages. While there are cases filed "on principle", and which are won, in the US, they are the exception, not the rule.

    5. The objective of my original response was to illuminate the point that libel law suits are far more complicated than "that guy called me a name I did not like so I'm going to sue him"...and while you may disagree, in my opinion, that objective has been realized.
    Last edited by Wave; 04-26-2020 at 01:10 AM.

  5. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wave View Post
    1. I am not an expert on these types of questions, but I probably do have more legal/courtroom experience and training than most forum members.
    No doubt.
    2. Anyone can file a law suit against anyone else for anything...but that does not mean that the law; case facts and evidence; the opinions of judge and jury; the competence of one's legal counsel (I could go on ad nausem, but I think you get my point) will ensure your case will prevail, or has merit. If a case actually makes it to trial, then the outcome is a crapshoot.
    I believe you. Never said I would win!
    3. We have moved into arguing hypotheticals...and I have more confidence in the statistics of blackjack than I do in trial verdicts...and neither one of us has the ability to definitively forecast the adjudication of any one actual case, let alone a hypothetical one.
    Right!
    4. In your example re: "N Man" you have "moved the goal posts" and changed the debate from my example of someone specifically claiming Norm or Don were a tax fraud...to a case where "Norm M" filed a case against someone for generically calling him a fraud (whatever that means)...so we have an apples to oranges comparison. But, ultimately, the majority of libel cases, and the overwhelming majority of civil cases in the US (I can't speak to Canada, I have no knowledge, training, or experience in Canadian law) hinge on proveable financial damages. While there are cases filed "on principle", and which are won, in the US, they are the exception, not the rule.
    Ok!
    5. The objective of my original response was to illuminate the point that libel law suits are far more complicated than "that guy called me a name I did not like so I'm going to sue him"...and while you may disagree, in my opinion, that objective has been realized.
    Yes, you did. However, the point I'm trying to make is: You can call me stupid, moron, fat, ugly or a plain piece of shit, I don't care! These are opinions based on personal tastes, likes and dislikes and they may be true for someone and untrue for another. But, if you write that I'm actually a drug dealer or as Meistro123 wrote "The fact that you have been practicing what is known as "tax fraud" for 25 years " when I never did so (see above post), then I won't take it. You may be right that I won't be able to do much about it but this isn't acceptable.
    G Man

  6. #32
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    Agreed.

  7. #33


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    I did some research, and this is what I found. If the casino withholds 30% of gambling winnings, a Canadian can later deduct their prior gambling losses (up to three years back) from the taxed amount and receive a tax return from the IRS. However, it seems that if the winnings were from blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel, the Canadian can get a total refund.

    https://www.taxtips.ca/personaltax/usgamblingtaxes.htm
    https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1042s
    https://fairtaxcanada.com/us-gambling-tax-recovery/

  8. #34


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    According to IRS Publication 515, "No tax is imposed on nonbusiness gamblingincome a nonresident alien wins playingblackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6wheel in the United States". I don't know how the whole "nonbusiness" works out if you are a professional AP though.

  9. #35


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    Quote Originally Posted by huevosrancheros View Post
    I did some research, and this is what I found. If the casino withholds 30% of gambling winnings, a Canadian can later deduct their prior gambling losses (up to three years back) from the taxed amount and receive a tax return from the IRS. However, it seems that if the winnings were from blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel, the Canadian can get a total refund.https://www.taxtips.ca/personaltax/usgamblingtaxes.htmhttps://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1042shttps://fairtaxcanada.com/us-gambling-tax-recovery/
    Don't even know why you bring this again... I gave it plain clear in post #25
    You may take a look at this link and FAQ no.10
    https://www.amexpattax.com/wp-conten...Q-TS2018.pdf10.
    Q: Are there any games that cannot be included in my total losses?
    A: You may NOT include losses for Blackjack, Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, or Big 6 Wheel as they are not taxed.
    G Man

  10. #36


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    Quote Originally Posted by huevosrancheros View Post
    According to IRS Publication 515, "No tax is imposed on nonbusiness gamblingincome a nonresident alien wins playingblackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6wheel in the United States". I don't know how the whole "nonbusiness" works out if you are a professional AP though.
    Exactly, the exception being if you declare as a professionnel player.
    G Man

  11. #37


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Let's see what the IRS has to say.

    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p597.pdf

    "Gambling losses. Canadian residents maydeduct gambling losses in the U.S. againstgambling winnings in the U.S. in the same manner as a U.S. resident."



    Clearly this shows that Canadians are taxed on net winnings over the course of the fiscal year, as I have been saying the whole time.

  12. #38


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419


    The following rules apply to casual gamblers who aren't in the trade or business of gambling. Gambling winnings are fully taxable and you must report the income on your tax return. Gambling income includes but isn't limited to winnings from lotteries, raffles, horse races, and casinos. It includes cash winnings and the fair market value of prizes, such as cars and trips.

    Note that casino winnings ARE taxable.



    "
    If you're a nonresident alien of the United States for income tax purposes and you have to file a tax return for U.S. source gambling winnings, you must use Form 1040-NR, U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return (PDF). Refer to Publication 519, U.S. Tax Guide for Aliens and Publication 901, U.S. Tax Treaties for more information. Generally, nonresident aliens of the United States who aren't residents of Canada can't deduct gambling losses."


    Non resident aliens must pay taxes but can't deduct losses (exception, if you are from the UK you can gamble without paying any tax afaik). Canadians must also pay taxes but can deduct losses.

  13. #39


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    Blackjack IS NOT TAXABLE unless canadians file as pros. Take the time to read the links I provided.
    Take a look at this:

    https://www.irs.gov/government-entit...esident-aliens
    Yes. In general, withhold at a rate of 30% on gambling proceeds won in the United States if that income isn’t effectively connected with a U.S. trade or business and isn’t exempted by treaty. Also, no withholding is required on nonbusiness gambling income from Blackjack, Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, or Big 6 Wheel.

    https://www.irs.gov/government-entit...tribal-members
    Unless specifically excluded by treaty, Tribal governments paying gambling winnings to nonresident alien individuals, or nonresident alien tribal members, would use Form 1042-S, Foreign Person's U. S. Source Income Subject to Withholding, to report the distributions. Winnings paid to a nonresident alien from blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel are excluded from the reporting requirement.

    https://www.irs.gov/individuals/inte...on-form-1042-s
    Amounts NOT subject to withholding under chapter 3:
    •Portfolio interest paid on obligations that meet certain requirements.
    •Bank deposit interest that is not effectively connected with the conduct of a U.S. trade or business.
    •Original issue discount on certain short- term obligations.
    •Nonbusiness gambling income of a nonresident alien playing blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel in the United States.
    •Amounts paid as part of the purchase price of an obligation sold between interest payment dates.
    •Original issue discount paid on the sale of an obligation other than a redemption.
    •Insurance premiums paid on a contract issued by a foreign insurer.

    Give us a break with your stupidities!
    Last edited by G Man; 04-28-2020 at 06:16 PM.
    G Man

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