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Thread: S17 or H17

  1. #27


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by BughouseMASTER View Post
    Yeah I call bullshit. And who is your "current tutor"? And what "weekly tournaments" will you be playing? All for less? If you think $25 for 1 hour of POWER JAM PACKED info then you should go ahead and quit while you're NOT ?ahead.
    Blackjack tournament players HATE HIM! Learn BughouseMASTER's WEIRD TRICK to make $10,000 or MORE!

    FAIR ENOUGH???

    (Shout outs to Steve Stevens)

  2. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by gayandlovingit View Post
    when i was younger i picked up a basketball for the first time and made a shot at the hoop - SWISH - nothing but net, first try no warm-ups

    Pops was pleased but i had bigger dreams. naturally, given my immaculate success, i knew it was time to put the ball down and become a coach
    So KJ or Moses?

  3. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    So KJ or Moses?
    lmao neither but as I was scouring the lore I came across moses and another forum and let me tell ya, when i saw the avatar of ghandi w/ the red eyes and wisps of black hair coming of the sides, i got a hearty chuckle that would've sufficed as a legit ab workout

  4. #30


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    BughouseMASTER (and others),

    Your reply (above) to pineywoodsbow struck me as rude. You indicated that your motive for replying was to help pineywoodsbow, but your tone did not communicate helpfulness.

    You tout yourself as a BJ tournament instructor or tutor. Wouldn't you agree that patience, humility and a spirit of collegiality are absolute necessities of great teachers?

    Let's all try to be more welcoming and cordial to others (including newcomers, for sure). Here is what Norm has posted (I believe on this website's homepage):

    BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.

  5. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by Overkill View Post
    To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.
    Norm is my dearest friend, but what he forgot to add to the final sentence was : "... and, therefore, they will not be tolerated. You should have no expectation that, just because you make a post, it will be permitted to stand. Administration has the right to delete any post for any reason whatsoever. Posting to this forum is a privilege and not a right; so think before you post. A word to the wise. ..."

    Just an oversight on his part!

    Don

  6. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Norm is my dearest friend, but what he forgot to add to the final sentence was : "... and, therefore, they will not be tolerated. You should have no expectation that, just because you make a post, it will be permitted to stand. Administration has the right to delete any post for any reason whatsoever. Posting to this forum is a privilege and not a right; so think before you post. A word to the wise. ..."

    Just an oversight on his part! V

    Don
    Don, you sure it’s an oversight? A bit of controversy and banning people for various lengths might feel powerful. Too clear rules lead to fewer violations and fewer bans. It takes the fun out of forum administration.

    I like Norm. He makes the right decisions about when to give forum addicts a break from the forum and that is applicable to all AP’s.

  7. #33


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pineywoodsbow View Post
    I am a little confused on what S17 or H17 implies. If a game is called S17, does it mean dealer hits on soft 17 or they stay?
    Hi, just read the OP title and the first couple very nice posts and then jumped to the end to respond to Pineywoodsbow. .

    Generally, you can often read the writing on the table felt:

    S17 is when the dealer "Must Stand on all 17s" including soft 17. This favors the Player, and is most consistent with the original historical rules of the game.

    H17 is when the dealer "Must Hit on Soft 17s and Stand on Hard 17 and all 18s" (I've actually seen this many words printed on a felt, --- silly, eh). This favors the House greatly. This rule was added later in the mid 20th century and has often been attributed to "Reno" and "Downtown" style rules.

    Now, while H17 favors the house in general for most all combinations of soft 17 hands that the dealer may construct, it does NOT help the dealer when he initially shows a 6 Up card while facing a competent card counter.

    Counters can take advantage of the H17 rule by using the count in deciding to Double on their own Soft 19 (Soft nineteen, A8 vs. 6, a great play), or for splitting their pair of Tens (though ill advised), and are more confident standing on their hard hands against a 6 (unless the count is rather low).

    So, the S17 tables favor the player and will draw more people to the tables. An H17 game might seem to favor the casino, but a good counter can manipulate them anyway.

    Sorry i missed the discussion.
    Enjoy friends,
    Ole


    Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ole; 04-25-2020 at 10:58 AM.

  8. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    Hi, just read the OP title and the first couple very nice posts and then jumped to the end to respond to Pineywoodsbow. .

    Generally, you can often read the writing on the table felt:

    S17 is when the dealer "Must Stand on all 17s" including soft 17. This favors the Player, and is most consistent with the original historical rules of the game.

    H17 is when the dealer "Must Hit on Soft 17s and Stand on Hard 17 and all 18s" (I've actually seen this many words printed on a felt, --- silly, eh). This favors the House greatly. This rule was added later in the mid 20th century and has often been attributed to "Reno" and "Downtown" style rules.

    Now, while H17 favors the house in general for most all combinations of soft 17 hands that the dealer may construct, it does NOT help the dealer when he initially shows a 6 Up card while facing a competent card counter.

    Counters can take advantage of the H17 rule by using the count in deciding to Double on their own Soft 19 (Soft nineteen, A8 vs. 6, a great play), or for splitting their pair of Tens (though ill advised), and are more confident standing on their hard hands against a 6 (unless the count is rather low).

    So, the S17 tables favor the player and will draw more people to the tables. An H17 game might seem to favor the casino, but a good counter can manipulate them anyway.

    Sorry i missed the discussion.
    Enjoy friends,
    Ole


    Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
    Ya, the so called "dealer must Hit S17 is a little mis-leading to the player..

    If memory serves me right CVdata doesnt generate a different index for hands of A8 A9 XX verses a 6.. I think the ones worth learning a separate index for are 11, A7 and 17 vs. Ace and by far the most important one imo is 12 vs. 6..

    Ive also wondered before if a Ace-reckoned count is a little more accurate on 12 vs. 6 (soft17) than a ace-neutral count when holding this hand..And even a stiff verses dealers ace-not that it matters much..
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 04-27-2020 at 09:07 AM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  9. #35


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    For future reference: versUs.

    Don

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BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.