Hard 16 vs 10, no surrender H17

[EyeBRollin]

I always stand 16v10 (obviously not 8,8), as I do not play past -1. It pisses off ploppies more. Also, dealers and pit seem to make assumptions based on that play alone when you don’t hit.

I’ve had ploppies get livid and shout over me surrendering or standing 16 vs 10.

[Gronbog]

Bottom line --- it's not worth worrying about at [edit: changed TC to RC] RC=0, but is the second most important index at positive counts.

[BoSox]

Bottom line --- it's not worth worrying about at TC=0, but is the second most important index at positive counts.

I politely disagree here. The reason it is the second most important index period is because of the frequency of occurrence. All counts that the hand appears make the importance valuable.

[Gronbog]

It's actually the sum of the frequency at each count, multiplied by the advantage at each count multiplied by the average bet in play at each count. At RC=TC=0 the advantage is so small as to make the contribution negligible compared to the contributions of the higher counts. I should have said RC=0 and not TC=0 in the post you quoted, since that's the case being discussed.

My point is that, since it is an important index, once the count warrants it, one should not be misplaying this hand in the way that Freightman seems to be suggesting.

[ZeeBabar]

It's actually the sum of the frequency at each count, multiplied by the advantage at each count multiplied by the average bet in play at each count. At RC=TC=0 the advantage is so small as to make the contribution negligible compared to the contributions of the higher counts. I should have said RC=0 and not TC=0 in the post you quoted, since that's the case being discussed.

My point is that, since it is an important index, once the count warrants it, one should not be misplaying this hand in the way that Freightman seems to be suggesting.

True, you can vary play based upon count while doing the “my gut tells me to hit/stay” bit.

[BughouseMASTER]

Without reading the 2983748920734098327 of posts again, let me just say that you will lose ~70% of the time NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO when you have a Hard 16 v 10. Basic Strategy (screw all the contradicting authors) says to simply HIT (assuming count = 0 of course) but if there are 1 or more "babies" (famous counter, Fred Renzey, defines this as 2-5's [not 6!], then you should then STAND since there will be a higher chance that you draw a 10.

I'll just throw this out there, though... you mentioned this was a H17 game.... did you know that basic strategy says you should actually SURRENDER two 8's against an Ace (as opposed to the common "always split A's & 8's")?!

[Gronbog]

You should have read at least the first few posts. The game is no surrender and we discussed composition dependent basic strategy.

Please be aware of your audience. Everyone here knows basic strategy.

[snakeplisskin]

Without reading the 2983748920734098327 of posts again, let me just say that you will lose ~70% of the time NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO when you have a Hard 16 v 10. Basic Strategy (screw all the contradicting authors) says to simply HIT (assuming count = 0 of course) but if there are 1 or more "babies" (famous counter, Fred Renzey, defines this as 2-5's [not 6!], then you should then STAND since there will be a higher chance that you draw a 10.

I'll just throw this out there, though... you mentioned this was a H17 game.... did you know that basic strategy says you should actually SURRENDER two 8's against an Ace (as opposed to the common "always split A's & 8's")?!

Well, I for one did not know that. My old index card doesn't consider H17.

[MJGolf]

Worst hand in BJ; going to lose it more than 70% of time no matter what. Why we surrender if possible. But you guys are arguing nuances when you can go straight to "horses' mouth". Basically............and the way I think it should be played is if positive running count of any amount; stand If true 0 or less, hit. As Colin states in his own video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Tdvgpdbrc

About 1:50 into video for any of you impatient souls.

And like Gronbog says, composition dependent strategy would only be appropriate for someone playing basic strategy but not using a counting system.............Unless you are James Grosjean. LOL

[BughouseMASTER]

You should have read at least the first few posts. The game is no surrender and we discussed composition dependent basic strategy.

Please be aware of your audience. Everyone here knows basic strategy.

Yes, I actually did read the 1st few posts, just not the entire 2897349723 of posts, like I said ^_~

I was also aware it was no surrender otherwise would've suggested to the OP to surrender that shitty hand faster than you can say CHECKMATE?!

[BughouseMASTER]

Well, I for one did not know that. My old index card doesn't consider H17.

Dont feel bad. MANY do not... including the 290837489027304973 dumbass dealers who are paid jack .... but yup, look it up! 8-8 vs A on a H17 table is NOT? a split, but a SURRENDER !

[Counting_Is_Fun]

For what it's worth...I think 16 v 10 is a hand that smart casinos watch more closely, because it happens so often. When they see you playing it differently, I think it helps them narrow you down as a counter. I almost always stand...if I have a bigger bet out then I am correct anyway.

[BughouseMASTER]

For what it's worth...I think 16 v 10 is a hand that smart casinos watch more closely, because it happens so often. When they see you playing it differently, I think it helps them narrow you down as a counter. I almost always stand...if I have a bigger bet out then I am correct anyway.

"smart casinos" ?! and what smart casinos would you be referring to? I've never noticed a casino keeping track of what someone does on such a common 16v10 losing hand with no surrender available..... and i've been around a LOT of ppl who dont count at all, only to hit & stand sporadically on that 70%-losing hand !