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Thread: Ploppy Kindness

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    So did he start selling any -EV hand, threatening to surrender stuff like 17 v 10?
    Yes

  2. #15
    Senior Member JBourne's Avatar
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    OH, I had a fun one today. There were 3 of us playing and shoe was getting close to finished. The TC was +1 so I had a 2-unit bet out. By the time the three hands were dealt the TC was +2. The guy at first base also had the same bet size as me and got 8,8 vs. 5, but he was out of money. He hesitated to consider running to the ATM but then said he'd just stand. Before he waved the hand off, the guy in center field asks "if he can play it". He says ok, and put the bet on the second 8. He draws on the first hand and gets another 8, so I said "I got this one"! I slid the chips over from 3rd based and he put my bet on the third hand. First hand drew a 10 for 18. Second hand drew 3 for 11 and then center field doubled it and caught an ace. Third hand drew a 4 for 12. We play the remainder of hands and the dealer busted on his 5th card. Table win!

    playing 8 vs 5 is positive EV, even more so on a positive count. To top it off, it was like getting to bet an extra hand after knowing the count had risen and also knowing my hand was a decent one. That was fun.
    Last edited by JBourne; 02-11-2020 at 05:32 PM. Reason: typos

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by JBourne View Post
    OH, I had a fun one today. There were 3 of us playing and shoe was getting close to finished. The TC was +1 so I had a 2-unit bet out. By the time the three hands were dealt the TC was +2. The guy at first based also had the same bet size as me and got 8,8 vs. 5, but he was out of money. He hesitated to consider running to the ATM but then said he'd just stand. Before he waves the hand off, the guy in center field asks "if he can play it". He says ok put the bet on the second 8. He draws on the first hand and gets another 8, so I said "I got this one"! I slid the chips over from 3rd based and he put my bet on the third hand. First hand drew a 10 for 18. Second hand drew 3 for 11 and then center field doubled it and catches an ace. Third hand drew a 4 for 12. We play the remainder of hands and the dealer busted on his 5th card. Table win!

    playing 8 vs 5 is positive EV, even more so on a positive count. To top it off, it was like getting to bet extra hand after knowing the count had risen and also knowing my hand was a decent one. That was fun.
    Glad you had a fun day, I just went into the Red for this year, losing $1575 at DD in a local casino. Something is up as it’s the casino that put me in OSN a couple of years back. Now they cut of 75% plus in DD, let me play without cover spreading $25 to $175 and losing. I was playing with a ploppy that played 2-3 hands ( he varied the number), always betting $25 on each hand and $50 on the 21+3 poker side bet. Incredibly he won an Orange Chip twice but lost about $3k and left broke. I kept playing a single hand and kept losing.

    Just weird.

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Glad you had a fun day, I just went into the Red for this year, losing $1575 at DD in a local casino. Something is up as it’s the casino that put me in OSN a couple of years back. Now they cut of 75% plus in DD, let me play without cover spreading $25 to $175 and losing. I was playing with a ploppy that played 2-3 hands ( he varied the number), always betting $25 on each hand and $50 on the 21+3 poker side bet. Incredibly he won an Orange Chip twice but lost about $3k and left broke. I kept playing a single hand and kept losing.

    Just weird.
    @ Z, I know you are not comfortable at the 6 deck shoe...and I assume 8 deck shoe...tables, but there is one significant difference between DD games and 6/8 deck shoe games that make them attractive to some APs (I only play 6 deck shoes). That is, specifically, that the counts are usually less volitile in muti-deck games than DD games and subsequently + counts can often last longer in the multi-deck games. Just something to consider if you use ODPs, which substantially increase your likelihood of playing in neutral or + counts.
    Last edited by Wave; 02-09-2020 at 09:14 PM.

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Glad you had a fun day, I just went into the Red for this year, losing $1575 at DD in a local casino. Something is up as it’s the casino that put me in OSN a couple of years back. Now they cut of 75% plus in DD, let me play without cover spreading $25 to $175 and losing. I was playing with a ploppy that played 2-3 hands ( he varied the number), always betting $25 on each hand and $50 on the 21+3 poker side bet. Incredibly he won an Orange Chip twice but lost about $3k and left broke. I kept playing a single hand and kept losing.

    Just weird.
    You are playing a DD game with 1.5 decks cutoff? It's hard to count a game like that.

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Counting_Is_Fun View Post
    You are playing a DD game with 1.5 decks cutoff? It's hard to count a game like that.
    This means cut off 25%, 75% dealt. In theory it’s a great game but the lack of heat, a 1-7 spread without cover makes me wonder about the ASM.

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    This means cut off 25%, 75% dealt. In theory it’s a great game but the lack of heat, a 1-7 spread without cover makes me wonder about the ASM.
    Given your exemplary play, a gaffed ASM would be my first thought, too. If you hear hoof beats, don't think zebra.

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Given your exemplary play, a gaffed ASM would be my first thought, too. If you hear hoof beats, don't think zebra.
    I go to Las Vegas, play hand shuffled DD games and consistently win, go and play a deeper penetration ASM DD game at local casinos and consistently lose, using the very same spread and identical play, then I cannot come to another conclusion. It’s not a one off either. It’s records of about 250 hours played in Las Vegas over 15 months versus about 300 hours of local play.

    It’s not me. In the old days, people used to call a game with deep penetration, minimal heat, a “honey pot” and keep it confidential. When people heard about such a game, they tried to descend on it and burn it.. Many call a DD game a “counter trap”.

    When a casino that used to take counter measures now is indifferent, that used to cut off 1.2-1.5 on 6 deck, 60% on DD, now allows the dealers to place a cut card under a deck in 6 deck games, cuts of just 20-26 cards in DD games, and does not seem to care, one wonders.

  9. #22


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    If you really believe it, file a complaint with Gaming. They will have to investigate.

  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    This means cut off 25%, 75% dealt. In theory it’s a great game but the lack of heat, a 1-7 spread without cover makes me wonder about the ASM.
    No, when you say..."Now they cut of 75% plus in DD"...
    That means they cutoff 75% of the shoe.
    Last edited by Counting_Is_Fun; 02-11-2020 at 08:39 PM.

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I go to Las Vegas, play hand shuffled DD games and consistently win, go and play a deeper penetration ASM DD game at local casinos and consistently lose, using the very same spread and identical play, then I cannot come to another conclusion. It’s not a one off either. It’s records of about 250 hours played in Las Vegas over 15 months versus about 300 hours of local play.
    Voodoo... I made it all the way to black chips playing exclusively ASMs. This includes Vegas strip casinos.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    It’s not me. In the old days, people used to call a game with deep penetration, minimal heat, a “honey pot” and keep it confidential. When people heard about such a game, they tried to descend on it and burn it.. Many call a DD game a “counter trap”.
    Next to the fact that casino personnel will naturally watch DD over shoe, this is the reason I’ve never bothered with DD.

    If you claim to be a recreational player like me, then play 6D 8D with a 8x spread. many more tables and less heat.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCounter View Post
    Voodoo... I made it all the way to black chips playing exclusively ASMs. This includes Vegas strip casinos.



    Next to the fact that casino personnel will naturally watch DD over shoe, this is the reason I’ve never bothered with DD.

    If you claim to be a recreational player like me, then play 6D 8D with a 8x spread. many more tables and less heat.
    First, if you have read my posts, it’s a relatively new phenomenon. It’s not everywhere. It’s possible.

    Second, lots of people play DD, I have played it all over. Las Vegas, In Minnesota, MS, OK and other places. A DD game is far superior to a 6 deck game. You just have to use common sense. Saying I don’t play DD because I might get caught so I play 6/8 decks is like saying I don’t drive a car cause I might get into an accident so I bicycle.

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