See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 18

Thread: Early Surrender House Edge Doubt

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Early Surrender House Edge Doubt

    Hi Friends,
    One of the Casinos nearby allow Early Surrender against dealer Ten (not against Ace though) but late surrender is not allowed against any card.

    Wanted to know if the above is advantageous compared to tables that allow only late surrender. Any comments would be helpful please. Thanks.

  2. #2


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense.

    By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace). Yes, ES10 is very advantageous.

    Now, the way your question is phrased, you’re saying that surrender is only allowed against dealer 10, not any other card. In other words, a no surrender game except when dealer has 10 up.

    So, if the typical 6d subject game with h17, das, da2, rsa, sp3, has he of .5 with eS10 and about .63 no surrender, then he with rule above would be somewhere in the middle. Still advantageous to a degree, but not nearly as advantageous as eS10.

  3. #3


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense."

    Of course it does.

    "By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace)."

    Since when???

    This is probably the first time I've ever read a post of yours that is 100% gibberish! What ARE you thinking?

    The OP plays (obviously) a NHC game with ES10. You can't ES vs. the ace, and you can't surrender whatsoever against any other dealer upcard (no matter what you say to the contrary!). Why on earth wouldn't you consider that a perfectly valid set of rules??

    In any event, for the OP, if you want an answer from someone who is sober (!), ES10 is worth 0.241% to the basic strategist playing against a 6-deck game. It is, of course, worth much more to a counter. LS, on the other hand, is worth only 0.073% for 6-deck S17 and 0.088% for H17, and so is far inferior to ES10.

    Don
    Last edited by DSchles; 12-02-2019 at 12:33 PM.

  4. #4


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense."

    Of course it does.

    "By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace)."

    Since when???

    This is probably the first time I've ever read a post of yours that is 100%! What ARE you thinking?

    The OP plays (obviously) a NHC game with ES10. You can't ES vs. the ace, and you can't surrender whatsoever against any other dealer upcard (no matter what you say to the contrary!). Why on earth wouldn't you consider that a perfectly valid set of rules??

    In any event, for the OP, if you want an answer from someone who is sober (!), ES10 is worth 0.241% to the basic strategist playing against a 6-deck game. It is, of course, worth much more to a counter. LS, on the other hand, is worth only 0.073% for 6-deck S17 and 0.088% for H17, and so is far inferior to ES10.

    Don
    I’ll rethink it, possibly a contradiction in terms. In any event, I’ll not respond further so that my dedicated fan base can call me an idiot and throw some unhelpfuls out. Mind you, this response should garner a couple.

  5. #5


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense.

    By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace). Yes, ES10 is very advantageous.

    Now, the way your question is phrased, you’re saying that surrender is only allowed against dealer 10, not any other card. In other words, a no surrender game except when dealer has 10 up.
    I also was immediately confused by your post. ES10 means you may only surrender versus dealer Ten, so why should you be able to LS versus every dealer upcard?

  6. #6


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    I’ll rethink it, possibly a contradiction in terms. In any event, I’ll not respond further so that my dedicated fan base can call me an idiot and throw some unhelpfuls out. Mind you, this response should garner a couple.
    Just one so far. A couple of more please.

  7. #7


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    OK, I edited my post. The word "gibberish" was missing after 100%. :-)

    Don

  8. #8


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    OK, I edited my post. The word "gibberish" was missing after 100%. :-)

    Don
    Thank you. That should assist me in my endeavour.

  9. #9


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    The gain from ES10 is around +.24. Not being able to surrender 16 v 9 is of negligible value so the gain should be around +.24. Slightly worse for a counter. But presumably OP misspoke and you can actually surrender vs anything but an ace. Of course for non tens and aces whether it is late or early is irrelevant.

  10. #10


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkChip View Post
    I also was immediately confused by your post. ES10 means you may only surrender versus dealer Ten, so why should you be able to LS versus every dealer upcard?
    ES10 means you get to surrender against 10 before dealer peak (hole card game) or against 10 before play is started (no hole card game), both scenarios meaning that scenarios allowing surrender before dealer having a bj is known. So, the rest of your query is meaningless.

  11. #11


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense."

    Of course it does.

    "By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace)."

    Since when???
    Time immemorial

    This is probably the first time I've ever read a post of yours that is 100% gibberish! What ARE you thinking?
    Hmmm

    The OP plays (obviously) a NHC game with ES10
    ES10 also allows surrender against 10 in a hole card game. I play that in several stores.

    You can't ES vs. the ace,
    You can, but not in an ES10 game. You need full early surrender.qqq Mind you, the hole card stores that I play allow LS ace (after peek)

    and you can't surrender whatsoever against any other dealer upcard (no matter what you say to the contrary!). Why on earth wouldn't you consider that a perfectly valid set of rules??

    Never seen a ridiculous rule set where ES10 only is offered, without the ability to surrender against any other dealer upcard (except ace). If it is available, certainly not common

    In any event, for the OP, if you want an answer from someone who is sober (!), ES10 is worth 0.241% to the basic strategist playing against a 6-deck game. It is, of course, worth much more to a counter. LS, on the other hand, is worth only 0.073% for 6-deck S17 and 0.088% for H17, and so is far inferior to ES10.

    Don’t drink, don’t do drugs - thank you.

    Don
    See above for my notes.

  12. #12


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    The gain from ES10 is around +.24. Not being able to surrender 16 v 9 is of negligible value so the gain should be around +.24. Slightly worse for a counter. But presumably OP misspoke and you can actually surrender vs anything but an ace. Of course for non tens and aces whether it is late or early is irrelevant.
    Seems to me that’s a rough interpretation if what I said.

  13. #13


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I find it incredible that, when someone states something as clearly as the OP did, everyone wants to rewrite history and reinterpret his words for him. Clear as daylight, he wrote that you can't surrender against any other dealer upcard. But everyone knows better that, in fact, you can. Were you there? Do you know the game he's referring to?

    Don

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Early Surrender?
    By Red Green in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-11-2018, 06:26 AM
  2. early surrender vs a
    By code red in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-04-2014, 11:05 AM
  3. Rockky: early surrender hous edge
    By Rockky in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-17-2005, 10:14 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.