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Thread: Early Surrender House Edge Doubt

  1. #1


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    Early Surrender House Edge Doubt

    Hi Friends,
    One of the Casinos nearby allow Early Surrender against dealer Ten (not against Ace though) but late surrender is not allowed against any card.

    Wanted to know if the above is advantageous compared to tables that allow only late surrender. Any comments would be helpful please. Thanks.

  2. #2


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense.

    By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace). Yes, ES10 is very advantageous.

    Now, the way your question is phrased, you’re saying that surrender is only allowed against dealer 10, not any other card. In other words, a no surrender game except when dealer has 10 up.

    So, if the typical 6d subject game with h17, das, da2, rsa, sp3, has he of .5 with eS10 and about .63 no surrender, then he with rule above would be somewhere in the middle. Still advantageous to a degree, but not nearly as advantageous as eS10.

  3. #3


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense."

    Of course it does.

    "By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace)."

    Since when???

    This is probably the first time I've ever read a post of yours that is 100% gibberish! What ARE you thinking?

    The OP plays (obviously) a NHC game with ES10. You can't ES vs. the ace, and you can't surrender whatsoever against any other dealer upcard (no matter what you say to the contrary!). Why on earth wouldn't you consider that a perfectly valid set of rules??

    In any event, for the OP, if you want an answer from someone who is sober (!), ES10 is worth 0.241% to the basic strategist playing against a 6-deck game. It is, of course, worth much more to a counter. LS, on the other hand, is worth only 0.073% for 6-deck S17 and 0.088% for H17, and so is far inferior to ES10.

    Don
    Last edited by DSchles; 12-02-2019 at 01:33 PM.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense."

    Of course it does.

    "By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace)."

    Since when???

    This is probably the first time I've ever read a post of yours that is 100%! What ARE you thinking?

    The OP plays (obviously) a NHC game with ES10. You can't ES vs. the ace, and you can't surrender whatsoever against any other dealer upcard (no matter what you say to the contrary!). Why on earth wouldn't you consider that a perfectly valid set of rules??

    In any event, for the OP, if you want an answer from someone who is sober (!), ES10 is worth 0.241% to the basic strategist playing against a 6-deck game. It is, of course, worth much more to a counter. LS, on the other hand, is worth only 0.073% for 6-deck S17 and 0.088% for H17, and so is far inferior to ES10.

    Don
    I’ll rethink it, possibly a contradiction in terms. In any event, I’ll not respond further so that my dedicated fan base can call me an idiot and throw some unhelpfuls out. Mind you, this response should garner a couple.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Your question, interpreted literally, doesn’t make sense.

    By definition, if you have ES10, you automatically have LS on every dealer upcard (except ace). Yes, ES10 is very advantageous.

    Now, the way your question is phrased, you’re saying that surrender is only allowed against dealer 10, not any other card. In other words, a no surrender game except when dealer has 10 up.
    I also was immediately confused by your post. ES10 means you may only surrender versus dealer Ten, so why should you be able to LS versus every dealer upcard?

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    I’ll rethink it, possibly a contradiction in terms. In any event, I’ll not respond further so that my dedicated fan base can call me an idiot and throw some unhelpfuls out. Mind you, this response should garner a couple.
    Just one so far. A couple of more please.

  7. #7


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    OK, I edited my post. The word "gibberish" was missing after 100%. :-)

    Don

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    OK, I edited my post. The word "gibberish" was missing after 100%. :-)

    Don
    Thank you. That should assist me in my endeavour.

  9. #9


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    The gain from ES10 is around +.24. Not being able to surrender 16 v 9 is of negligible value so the gain should be around +.24. Slightly worse for a counter. But presumably OP misspoke and you can actually surrender vs anything but an ace. Of course for non tens and aces whether it is late or early is irrelevant.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkChip View Post
    I also was immediately confused by your post. ES10 means you may only surrender versus dealer Ten, so why should you be able to LS versus every dealer upcard?
    ES10 means you get to surrender against 10 before dealer peak (hole card game) or against 10 before play is started (no hole card game), both scenarios meaning that scenarios allowing surrender before dealer having a bj is known. So, the rest of your query is meaningless.

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