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Thread: Index for Surrender 17 vs. Ace in a H17 game?

  1. #1


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    Index for Surrender 17 vs. Ace in a H17 game?

    I have looked up the Hi-Lo indices in Stanford Wong's Professional Blackjack (1994 edition, 2009 print) and am wondering what to do when playing a H17 game and get 17 versus dealer Ace. Wong has a "reverse index" saying you should surrender this hand only for low true counts till +2. Does that mean you should stand on higher counts, because the dealer is more likely to bust then? Does it make sense to do anything different than standing? I think of

    1. option: Always stand on 17 vs. Ace
    2. option: Always surrender 17 vs. Ace
    3. option: Surrender for low counts, stand for high counts (index play)

    The more I read about this using different sources, the more I get confused. (The index is not part of the Fab 4, but part of Basic Strategy, but only for H17, not for S17).
    Last edited by PinkChip; 12-15-2019 at 02:56 PM.

  2. #2


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    Right, so if the true count is 2 or higher then you should stay (not surrender). If the true count is below that number, you should surrender. This is a reverse index, usually you are more inclined to surrender in high counts. Not so with 17 v A.

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    The bj basic strategy charts I have looked at say stand on h17 vs ace..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pariah View Post
    The bj basic strategy charts I have looked at say stand on h17 vs ace..?
    I have Basic Strategy charts printed on plastic cards, which say stand on 17 vs. ace for S17 rule (dealer stands on soft 17) but surrender 17 vs. ace for H17 rule (dealer hits soft 17). See e.g.

    https://wizardofodds.com/games/black...ategy/4-decks/

    But for a simplified generic strategy, I tend to omit this surrender play, since for S17 (at all counts) and for H17 at high counts standing is better, and optimizing for high counts is more important since the big bets are out then.

    I guess this is the reason why this index play is not part of the Fabulous 4, and e.g. KO and REKO do also not use it but refer for S17 vs ace to a generic Basic Strategy which is based upon S17 for multiple decks and does not surrender any 17.
    Last edited by PinkChip; 12-16-2019 at 03:34 AM.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkChip View Post
    I have looked up the Hi-Lo indices in Stanford Wong's Professional Blackjack (1994 edition, 2009 print) and am wondering what to do when playing a H17 game and get 17 versus dealer Ace. Wong has a "reverse index" saying you should surrender this hand only for low true counts till +2. Does that mean you should stand on higher counts, because the dealer is more likely to bust then? Does it make sense to do anything different than standing? I think of

    1. option: Always stand on 17 vs. Ace
    2. option: Always surrender 17 vs. Ace
    3. option: Surrender for low counts, stand for high counts (index play)

    The more I read about this using different sources, the more I get confused. (The index is not part of the Fab 4, but part of Basic Strategy, but only for H17, not for S17).
    Uggg

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