hi guys
im sure many would like to be full time bj players, however what would be the average yearly earnings for a full time player? What would be realisitc NET earnings in the first 5 years?
interested to hear some stories
hi guys
im sure many would like to be full time bj players, however what would be the average yearly earnings for a full time player? What would be realisitc NET earnings in the first 5 years?
interested to hear some stories
What? Are you looking for a return visit to the country club, Zg?Originally Posted by zengrifter
Full time BJ play is not as romantic as you are probably imaging it to be. There are basically 2 plans of attack and they both have drawbacks. One is you play high stakes and travel alot, because you are going to wear out your welcome. The second is to play mid-level stakes, play alot, and try to fly under the radar. The first involves alot of traveling. The second involves alot of work.
As for average yearly earnings, that is going to depend on the level you play, how much you play, and what techniques you are using. Players using advanced techniques play at a bigger advantage and make far more than card counters. I get the feeling, you are discussing card counting though. A properly bankrolled, mid-level, grind it out, move around alot player, play alot player can make upper five figures, which probably is less than you are figuring. I have been in this range for 4 years now from my BJ play. It wouldn't be impossible for me to touch 6 figures, with a really good year, but those results would be above expectation. In other words a really 'lucky year', although we don't call it luck.
Now realistic net earnings for the first 5 years....well that too is going to depend on what level you are bankrolled and playing and if you really know what you are doing. My first 5 years totaled less than 80 grand. The first 3 years of those five, totaled 30 grand...yeah, about half of what a full-time McDonald's worker makes.
Again, full-time play probably isn't as lucrative, nor exciting as you are imagining. And the pressure can be great. Long losing periods that really wear on you and wear you out. You might reconsider the advantages of being or remaining a part-time player. Treat BJ as a part-time gig, while paying your expenses from something a little more steady and less nerve-racking.
Fairly straightforward, action times edge. The average would-be full-time professional player I'm guessing plays at about -0.001 (before expenses) so it's really a question of how much she bets and the hours she puts in. And how long it takes her to tap. YMMV.
i understand it sounds glamorous, each time walking into a cas and walking out with cash. it takes hours of practice, training, ongoing practice, testing, dedication etc. however not much point dedicating a career to making 5 figures.......even though its tax free (i assume). however the lifestyle may be better than a normal position earning 130k gross?
i assume it also depends on bank roll size and many other factors.
just curious to hear what earnings are playing red chip, green, black etc
Let me try being helpful. The income is not tax free. It is income. Tax evasion is a felony. If you want to make money via felonies you can do far more lucrative things than trying to win at blackjack and cheat the government.
'Lifestyle' --- this is subjective, and you've hit the nail on the head really: it's the determining factor. The lifestyle is beyond hellish from any conventional point of view. You will work harder than you would in the straight world and for less money. For less money both in the near term (you'll earn less now, probably) and long term (because you'll build no resume, you'll do the opposite of establishing a future for yourself: you'll establish the inability to work in the future at anything other than gambling; if you also cheat the government through felony tax evasion you'll have no reasonable record of income and hence no ability to have relationships with the very useful conventional financial sector for purposes such as mortgages). The variance will make you insane if you need income within 12 months. The only way I've seen people stay remotely sober while gambling professionally or even quasi-professionally is by setting aside enough in living expenses that their current result makes no difference, zero difference, to their overall financial situation: they are earning money for living expenses a year or two down the road, and their current life experience can't be affected in any way by what happens this month or in the next several months of blackjack.
Even more sincerely: the casino begins wearing on your heart. You see what's ugliest in human relations. The casino is an enterprise that seeks only to exploit. It provides no service -- none. No 'entertainment,' and everyone on the inside knows it. Watching 'friendly' marketers or casino execs spin lies to drunk, vulnerable *******s day in and out leaves you with not a lot of positive zest in your soul. It affects you. The players are *******s for being players and degenerates and the casino staff are *******s for dedicating their professional lives to bashing in the brains of the degenerates (while also, of course, chasing off, or rather treating as criminals those few really brave card counters and other advantage players who actually take all the casino 'you can win money here!' marketing bull**** in earnest: you're a criminal for seeking to live the exact dream the casino sells). Everyone is a monster in this world. You'll become one too, just you wait. Your compassion for the degenerates will wain to nothing. They're basically in your way and slowing down games and also saddening you through their own blindness. You'll find yourself turning into an obnoxious driver. You'll never be going fast enough. Because time is always money and because you could always be in a casino somewhere earning money rather than stuck in traffic or visiting ****ing in-laws or doing whatever you're doing, and because the casino environment has cemented in your imagination the concept that nothing matters but result, nothing matters but the 'winning' they constantly pretend to be selling, and because you're stuck after a couple hundred hours of tough variance and you're starting to doubt yourself and you need to prove things to yourself or your spouse or some demon, you'll begin finding life tedious, finding everything that stands in the way of you and your just desserts -- your EV or your cash-in-fist, the ****ing prosperity you've sweated so hard to generate -- worthless, absurd. You'll turn into a real *******, just you wait.
Al Mucous wrote a fine post describing the lifestyle. I would quibble with the very last line, "You'll turn into a real *******, just you wait". I don't think this has to be true. Depends on who you are to begin with. But his point is that it can and will change you, some. Into this lifestyle for a number years now, I really feel like this has to be a lifestyle choice, not just about a career or about making money. In other words you have to have a real passion for it.
A couple things I would like to add to Al's fine post, things that players might not consider when thinking about this path. Al Mentioned that you are required to pay taxes on these funds. In addition, you aren't going to have medical insurance paid or partially paid by an employer, so you better buy some coverage. You also aren't paying towards retirement in the form of social security for what that's worth or will be worth in the future, so you have to start putting away some funds for that. And then there is sick days/vacation days/personal time. There are no paid days for not working. If you get sick, or slip and fall on some wet pavement and tear a ligament requiring surgery, missing 5 or 6 weeks, you aren't getting paid. You aren't making any money if you can't work.
And finally, Al mentioned difficulty in professional relationships, there is a great deal of difficulty having personal relationships as well. This isn't a normal 9-5 job, hours must be varied and there has to be at least some travel involved. Any traditional relationship is going to have to involve a person with a lot of flexibility and understanding.
Huh?
Look here: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...icare-Taxes%29
KJ - if you haven't been paying your SS and medicare self-employment taxes, you better find an accountant and lawyer, quickly!
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