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Thread: Optimal vs Simple Betting Ramp

  1. #1


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    Optimal vs Simple Betting Ramp

    I’ve been spending some time using CVCX to create a betting ramp between true counts of 0 and 3. The generated bet ramp was complex, with bets like 30 (a red and green), and 65 (two greens and three reds). I have placed bets like this, and it seems tedious and time-consuming for the dealer to pay it off, especially when I’m playing two hands (which is always).

    I’m curious as to whether this simplified bet ramp would seem more natural or more artificial and if this would be better heat-wise than a spread with bets that have mixed colors. Particularly when it comes to longer sessions (multiple hours).

    True 0 and Lower: One Red Chip

    True 1: One Green Chip

    True 2: Two Green Chips

    True 3 and Higher: Three Green Chips



    Thanks

  2. #2


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    You're using a simpler betting system for reasons you cite in your post. First, it's not as tedious to count out chips to make the appropriate bets. In addition, it's easier and less frustrating for the dealer to calculate payment. More importantly, it does not arouse as much suspicion. Ask yourself if you were a pit critter who you'd be more interested in? The man making 25 to 50 dollar bets, or the guy counting out 28 dollars and 57 dollars?

    The tradeoff to a simpler betting system is you are likely going to overbet, which reduces SCORE and increases variance and RoR. However your hourly rate will be higher.
    Last edited by RUMIYODIN; 11-04-2019 at 03:17 AM.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by RatherNotGiveMyRealName View Post
    I’ve been spending some time using CVCX to create a betting ramp between true counts of 0 and 3. The generated bet ramp was complex, with bets like 30 (a red and green), and 65 (two greens and three reds). I have placed bets like this, and it seems tedious and time-consuming for the dealer to pay it off, especially when I’m playing two hands (which is always).

    I’m curious as to whether this simplified bet ramp would seem more natural or more artificial and if this would be better heat-wise than a spread with bets that have mixed colors. Particularly when it comes to longer sessions (multiple hours).

    True 0 and Lower: One Red Chip

    True 1: One Green Chip

    True 2: Two Green Chips

    True 3 and Higher: Three Green Chips



    Thanks
    Exact bets are also a giveaway. Putting $45-$55, $70 to $80 etc, does two things, it puts a red chip on the top, so the pit critter glancing at the table does not see Green and the varying amounts make you look less robotic and more indecisive, less professional.

    you can understand the concept and play accordingly.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by RatherNotGiveMyRealName View Post
    The generated bet ramp was complex, with bets like 30 (a red and green), and 65 (two greens and three reds).
    Do not make a $65 bet where if you surrender or get a blackjack the dealer has to use a $2.50 pink chip to complete their work, and then you will have been paid off in three colors. Make an $80 bet instead of $75, and $60, or $70 rather than $65. Those times when you do have a pink chip don't make $7.50,$12.50, $17.50, or $22.50 bets as then you may also end up with some white chips, although, you may get a higher payout based on house policy.
    Last edited by BoSox; 11-04-2019 at 06:12 AM.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Exact bets are also a giveaway. Putting $45-$55, $70 to $80 etc, does two things, it puts a red chip on the top, so the pit critter glancing at the table does not see Green and the varying amounts make you look less robotic and more indecisive, less professional.

    you can understand the concept and play accordingly.
    Best to bet one color only. Doing otherwise slows the game down.

  6. #6


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    Best to bet only one color and an even number of chips.

    I recently had a blackjack on a $95 bet (all red). The payout took over a minute as the dealer was slow and asked the pit to confirm. In that time two players joined the game with a high count that I had played previously heads up.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Black View Post
    Best to bet only one color and an even number of chips.
    That may be good for players with sufficient bankrolls but not for the original poster who started the thread. If he started betting with two red chips his spread would be cut in half, as his max bet remains the same either way.
    Last edited by BoSox; 11-04-2019 at 01:08 PM.

  8. #8


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    My win rate and risk both increase with the simplified betting strategy but I do like the idea that it may look more natural to just toss a red or a green out there in counts of 0 or 1, then I can parlay/chip up to two or three greens on counts of two or three. That just seems more natural looking for me to do on a regular basis for longevity on these long sessions.

    I could also bet like this:

    True 0: One Red
    True 1: Three Reds
    True 2: One Green
    True 3: Two Greens
    True 4: Three Greens


    This does decrease my win rate (and RoR) and looks a little less natural between counts of 0 and 1.

  9. #9


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    substitute four red for one green to speed up surrenders and blackjacks

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    substitute four red for one green to speed up surrenders and blackjacks
    That’s a good point, I’ll keep that in mind.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by RUMIYODIN View Post
    You're using a simpler betting system for reasons you cite in your post. First, it's not as tedious to count out chips to make the appropriate bets. In addition, it's easier and less frustrating for the dealer to calculate payment. More importantly, it does not arouse as much suspicion. Ask yourself if you were a pit critter who you'd be more interested in? The man making 25 to 50 dollar bets, or the guy counting out 28 dollars and 57 dollars?

    The tradeoff to a simpler betting system is you are likely going to overbet, which reduces SCORE and increases variance and RoR. However your hourly rate will be higher.
    This about sums it up. The win rate is $8 an hour more but my risk goes up 10%. If I develop a larger bankroll, betting like this is probably the right answer but right now I do have to think about it. My risk would go to 45% with the simplified ramp but my bankroll is replenishable.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Exact bets are also a giveaway. Putting $45-$55, $70 to $80 etc, does two things, it puts a red chip on the top, so the pit critter glancing at the table does not see Green and the varying amounts make you look less robotic and more indecisive, less professional.

    you can understand the concept and play accordingly.
    When you say exact bet, are you referring to always betting the same amount per true count or are you referring to a bet of $45 or $85, as in the results of a CVCX ramp.

  13. #13
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    You rarely want to have a rainbow stack -- more than two colors. But, making bets that are not exact multiples, if done correctly, can make it look like you are just grabbing chips available instead of betting according to some perfectly optimal ramp. A good dealer will be slowed very slightly. A bad dealer may overpay.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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