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Thread: no dealers facedown card

  1. #1


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    no dealers facedown card

    idk about the structure of this forum so ima be just asking these probably pretty basic questions here.

    from what ive seen there are casinos where the dealer gets a 2nd facedown card vs those where the dealer draws his 2nd card after the last player finished drawing.

    does that difference in some form change what basic strategy dictates? also, does it carry implications for card counting?

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by broetchen View Post
    idk about the structure of this forum so ima be just asking these probably pretty basic questions here.

    from what ive seen there are casinos where the dealer gets a 2nd facedown card vs those where the dealer draws his 2nd card after the last player finished drawing.

    does that difference in some form change what basic strategy dictates? also, does it carry implications for card counting?
    It would have negative consequences because you don’t get any insurance, right. No dealer second card so no checking for BJ.

  3. #3


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    It's called "European No Hole Card", or ENHC, for short. Some variants of it are called "OBO", or "Original Bet Only". That means that if the dealer does get a blackjack from pulling their second card, you only lose your original bets (and not any doubles or splits). If the game a ENHC OBO game, it plays the exact same as basic strategy.

    If the game is ENHC but NOT OBO, the basic strategy chart is different. Essentially, you don't double if the dealer could have a blackjack. Again, that is only if it is NOT a OBO game.
    https://wizardofodds.com/games/black...tegy/european/


    I will let someone who is more experienced comment on the implications for card counting. As Zee already stated, you do lose the option of the insurance bet. (Unless there are ENHC games that offer insurance?) In basic strategy you would not take insurance, when counting you do take insurance when the TC is appropriate.

  4. #4


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    As nighterfighter mentioned, basic strategy does have a couple of changes depending if the game is ENHC or a NHC game with OBO.
    Insurance is still offered in a ENHC game. If the dealer has an Ace up, they offer insurance. Once all of the players have finished their playing decisions, the dealer will then draw themselves their second card. For those players who took insurance, the insurance bet is then settled.

  5. #5


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    Talmadge is right, insurance is still offered in ENHC games. In Europe, unfortunately OBO is not common, so you will lose all double and split bets if the dealer gets a natural. The most important changes to Basic Strategy, making your play more cautious, are:

    1.) Never double down versus dealer Ace or Ten (that means double down on 10 and 11 only versus dealer 2 through 9), because dealer might have a blackjack in the end

    2.) Don't split Aces and Eights versus dealer Ten or Ace, with the exception of splitting Aces versus Ten, because then a dealer blackjack will happen more rarely (so the simple "Always split Aces and Eights" rule is not true anymore. This makes me hate the ENHC rule even more).

    3.) In addition, often soft doubling is not allowed (double down on Hard 9, 10, 11 is usually allowed), so the altered Basic Strategy says Hit on every Soft Hand till Soft 17, and Soft 18 versus 9, 10, A. Stand on every Soft 19 or higher.

    These plays are all also contained in the charts on the link posted above.
    Last edited by PinkChip; 10-25-2019 at 03:41 AM.

  6. #6


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    There is little reference, and what little reference is given to the NHC game, comments are wrong.

    Not ENHC, but NHC, where dealer only gets one card. Insurance is offered on dealer ace, players are offered insurance, the hand us played out and then dealer takes his second card. If dealer gets BJ, then insurance bets are paid, and then only original bets (not splits ir doubles) are then taken.

    Hole card game offers an ever so slightly superior game to NHC, which is compensated by a faster no peek game. Let me suggest that heads up, a fast player and dealer, an ASM, can easily motor 300 hph at NHC.

    Oh, to add, unlike the ENHC game, HC and NHC game are the same strategies.

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