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Thread: Question on basic strategy and counts for beginners

  1. #1


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    Question on basic strategy and counts for beginners

    For basic strategy, is it best to just learn what you'll be playing 90+% of the time or should you learn single deck with standard rules and add on adjustments for # of decks, rules etc.?

    On counts, the first count I read about was red 7 and I was going to proceed with learning it. But here, it seems different versions of KO are recommended beginners. Is R7 significantly weaker than KO or does it have to do with the limited number of index plays highlighted in Blackbelt in BJ?

    Appreciate any advice/opinions!

  2. #2


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    For BS, learn what you'll be playing the most and then learn adjustments from there if you play a different game. For example, if you're playing mostly DAS, learn the splits based on that. Then in a NDAS game, learn which splits to skip that you'd normally make, such as 2,2 vs. 2.

    Whatever count you can execute with very few mistakes is the right count. Generally KO is considered the easiest unbalanced count and out-performs R7. Many pros recommend you just learn hi-lo like most of us - it's pretty easy and pretty powerful and is used by most teams including MIT and Church teams.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    Generally KO is considered the easiest unbalanced count and out-performs R7.
    I'm sorry to contradict you, but if you'll refer to BJA3, p. 176, you'll see that, in the great majority of cases, it is Red 7 that outperforms K-O, sometimes by very significant amounts. K-O seems to outperform in very deeply cut 6- and 8-deck games that, frankly, don't really exist.

    Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    I'm sorry to contradict you, but if you'll refer to BJA3, p. 176, you'll see that, in the great majority of cases, it is Red 7 that outperforms K-O, sometimes by very significant amounts. K-O seems to outperform in very deeply cut 6- and 8-deck games that, frankly, don't really exist.

    Don
    What would you consider very deeply cut 6 deck 90% or better?

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    Last edited by Phoebe; 09-14-2019 at 07:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    I'm sorry to contradict you, but if you'll refer to BJA3, p. 176, you'll see that, in the great majority of cases, it is Red 7 that outperforms K-O, sometimes by very significant amounts. K-O seems to outperform in very deeply cut 6- and 8-deck games that, frankly, don't really exist.

    Don
    My mistake. I was going from memory but should have looked it up.

  7. #7
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    For information, in the graph above, my strategies for the KO and the Red7
    Simple and in the spirit of both systems.
    The true counted Red7 is only for reference.

    http://blackjack.debourgogne.net/files/strko.png and http://blackjack.debourgogne.net/files/strred7.png
    strko.jpg strred7.jpg
    Last edited by Phoebe; 09-15-2019 at 12:46 AM. Reason: wrong links

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wave View Post
    Don, are you lumping KO and REKO 6DF together...and Simple Red 7 and Advanced Red 7 together...when saying Red 7 outperforms KO...or does it not matter and either version of Red 7 would outperform either version of KO...or do I need to sim it because you do not know off the top of your head?
    I don't know off the top of my head. I took the sims and the versions of the counts from the ones Norm used to create the charts on page 176. It definitely isn't REKO.

    Don

  9. #9


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    This is the question to Mr. Schlesinger. On your BJA3, p. 176, the red 7 sim, how is the 7 being treated?
    Is red 7 =1, black 7 = 0 or all 7s = 0.5 ?

    Thanks!

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    For BS, learn what you'll be playing the most and then learn adjustments from there if you play a different game. For example, if you're playing mostly DAS, learn the splits based on that. Then in a NDAS game, learn which splits to skip that you'd normally make, such as 2,2 vs 2.

    Ok, that's what I was thinking.... will stick with that plan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    Many pros recommend you just learn hi-lo like most of us - it's pretty easy and pretty powerful and is used by most teams including MIT and Church teams.
    Adding the true count conversion on top of everything else seems like a lot at this point ( I know you build up to it though). I will definitely consider it.... appreciate the feedback.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    I'm sorry to contradict you, but if you'll refer to BJA3, p. 176, you'll see that, in the great majority of cases, it is Red 7 that outperforms K-O, sometimes by very significant amounts. K-O seems to outperform in very deeply cut 6- and 8-deck games that, frankly, don't really exist.

    Don

    Thanks Don, if I go the unbalanced route.... think I'll stick with R7.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by kwso View Post
    This is the question to Mr. Schlesinger. On your BJA3, p. 176, the red 7 sim, how is the 7 being treated?
    Is red 7 =1, black 7 = 0 or all 7s = 0.5 ?

    Thanks!
    The former.

    Don

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