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Thread: Tips on back counting?

  1. #1


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    Tips on back counting?

    How do you typically back count tables without looking suspicious? Any books or resources with good advice on back counting tables?

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by TAGR View Post
    How do you typically back count tables without looking suspicious? Any books or resources with good advice on back counting tables?
    I've been working on this too. I guess only certain tables can be back-counted. Factors being crowd size standing walking behind tables and table position in relation to other games. I only have one candidate for back counting by me. A Casino by me has heavy isle traffic on a Friday or Saturday night with a table position close to a roulette table. The couple times I've practiced this I would spend 95% of time focused on roulette and take a quick glance at the BJ table and try to quickly count the six hands dealt using the cancel method. It was 3x harder than playing and counting. The first count wasn't hard when hands were initially dealt. I had problems when the players would start hitting and splitting their hands. I found it very hard to keep track of the cards when the round was in play and still look like all my interest was on the roulette table.

  3. #3


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    A lot of successful blackjack has to do with acting. You want to act like a regular gambler.
    Lots of regular gamblers (you’ve seen them) stand behind tables “to see how the cards are running “ and to see how players are playing their hands. They may just be too timid to jump right in and want to get a feel for the game.
    No gambler watches a dealer shuffle to then watch the first few hands. You must time things so that you walk up just as the first hand is being played. Since you missed the first had, you may as well see “how the table is running.”
    You should appear to only have a casual interest in what cards are coming out, more interested in the play. Remember, you’re a gambler seeing if this is a “lucky table.”
    I seldom back-count more than a deck. It depends no how well you can act, take a call, look at the next table, etc.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by thurmondtom View Post
    A lot of successful blackjack has to do with acting. You want to act like a regular gambler.
    Lots of regular gamblers (you’ve seen them) stand behind tables “to see how the cards are running “ and to see how players are playing their hands. They may just be too timid to jump right in and want to get a feel for the game.
    No gambler watches a dealer shuffle to then watch the first few hands. You must time things so that you walk up just as the first hand is being played. Since you missed the first had, you may as well see “how the table is running.”
    You should appear to only have a casual interest in what cards are coming out, more interested in the play. Remember, you’re a gambler seeing if this is a “lucky table.”
    I seldom back-count more than a deck. It depends no how well you can act, take a call, look at the next table, etc.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If you are not a trained actor, don’t even try going too far from who you are. Advice is good but elaborate attempts to dress entirely differently, act like a degenerate etc, is, to the pit, like watching amateur actors. They keep shooting looks at the pit just like amateurs keep glancing at the camera.

  5. #5


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    So when back counting are you guys just trying to back count a portion of the shoe. For example, you walk up and see the shoe is two decks in. You watch a couple rounds and notice the RC is +12 from when you started counting. Would you just work off this RC even though you missed the first two decks? If this is the case, I have a serious misunderstanding. I'm always thinking for counting to properly work I need to see the shoe from the start. Maybe this is why I find back counting so difficult.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleChoo View Post
    So when back counting are you guys just trying to back count a portion of the shoe. For example, you walk up and see the shoe is two decks in. You watch a couple rounds and notice the RC is +12 from when you started counting. Would you just work off this RC even though you missed the first two decks?<snip>
    UncleChoo,

    Yes.

    If you enter at that point, then the RC is +12. If the "couple rounds" comprised, say one deck, and the table uses 6 decks, then the unseen decks are 6-1 = 5, so the TC is +12/5 = +2.4. As you play the remainder of the shoe, remember to subtract 2 decks from the discard pile when you calculate your "unseen decks".

    The reason for this is that the first two decks were in fact "unseen" by you, so they might as well still be in the shoe but behind the cut card.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleChoo View Post
    So when back counting are you guys just trying to back count a portion of the shoe.
    One key point in all of this is that you do not want to make the pen worse than whatever it was starting out of a new shoe. So the only way to do that is to start your back counting on the very first hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by UncleChoo View Post
    For example, you walk up and see the shoe is two decks in. You watch a couple rounds

    Don't get into that type of bad habit. Why would you even consider thinking that you will watch a couple of rounds at that point of the game? Think about what you would be contemplating. Example: The table is an eight-deck game that started out with 75% pen that is now 50% pen, "in a six-deck game the pen will be even less with that same starting 75% pen with 2 decks already in", in that same example.

    Now on the other hand, if you walk by a table and see a shit load of small cards already on the felt and you want to see another round go-ahead but it is not going to be much of a great opportunity especially if two decks are in the discard tray. Remember first in order for you to have seen all those low cards there had to be a somewhat crowded table, to begin with, and not only are you going to wong in but chances are you might also wong out quickly after a few hands, which may draw unwanted attention to yourself.
    Last edited by BoSox; 09-10-2019 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #8


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    BoSox and Doghand thanks for the replies. I guess the main thing from your replies is to properly adjust for the worse pen.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    One key point in all of this is that you do not want to make the pen worse than whatever it was starting out of a new shoe. So the only way to do that is to start your back counting on the very first hand.





    Don't get into that type of bad habit. Why would you even consider thinking that you will watch a couple of rounds at that point of the game? Think about what you would be contemplating. Example: The table is an eight-deck game that started out with 75% pen that is now 50% pen, "in a six-deck game the pen will be even less with that same starting 75% pen with 2 decks already in", in that same example.

    Now on the other hand, if you walk by a table and see a shit load of small cards already on the felt and you want to see another round go-ahead but it is not going to be much of a great opportunity especially if two decks are in the discard tray. Remember first in order for you to have seen all those low cards there had to be a somewhat crowded table, to begin with, and not only are you going to wong in but chances are you might also wong out quickly after a few hands, which may draw unwanted attention to yourself.
    Good info from BoSox here. If you start backcounting halfway thru the shoe then your pen is 50% etc.
    I don't really find many opportunities to back count...to me it is just too obvious.
    My advice is start at the new shoe and back count only one deck or so...then chatter about "feeling lucky" etc, or "you have to leave soon anyway so I might as well play"...then join the game if the count looks good.

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