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Thread: Shuffling Machine

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    Shuffling Machine

    I have found a game that gives ridiculous penetration on 6 deck, I mean to the point where it's barely a deck. I have noticed that counts are extreme swings and consistently that way. Meaning I am getting back to back to back decks that reach a true 7 or even run into negatives that high. I do not play in the extreme negatives, but could this be a sign of a broken shuffling machine? There were too many shoes in a row for it to just be a coincidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyOcean View Post
    I have found a game that gives ridiculous penetration on 6 deck, I mean to the point where it's barely a deck. I have noticed that counts are extreme swings and consistently that way. Meaning I am getting back to back to back decks that reach a true 7 or even run into negatives that high. I do not play in the extreme negatives, but could this be a sign of a broken shuffling machine? There were too many shoes in a row for it to just be a coincidence.
    So you are getting many shoes that reach a True 7...then I am unclear what the issue is? Extreme pen brings extreme counts...that's what we all hope for.
    And define "too many shoes in a row for it to just be a coincidence" ?
    Last edited by Counting_Is_Fun; 09-09-2019 at 02:31 AM.

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    Lately, I have come across casinos in St. Louis that have started giving such extreme penetration. One with a notch and one where the dealers do it but both provide well under 45 cards cut off on a 6 deck shoe. More like about 32-35 cards. I don’t know whether it’s a change of ownership or because of something else.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by Counting_Is_Fun View Post
    So you are getting many shoes that reach a True 7...then I am unclear what the issue is? Extreme pen brings extreme counts...that's what we all hope for.
    And define "too many shoes in a row for it to just be a coincidence" ?
    True count +7 is nothing. I have played at casinos constantly cutting less than 0.5 decks out of 6D. (Casinos no longer back off AP and always give 5.5D/6D penetration.) The RC ended at above +30 quite often, sometimes it ended at +45. That is TC at +60 and +90 for Zen. What do you do when TC is at +90? By the way, when I play hand-shuffled games at the same casino, it gave me the same 5.5D/6D penetration, but I am fortunate to have a shoe reaching RC +25 at the end after playing for hours.
    Last edited by BJGenius007; 09-09-2019 at 06:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    True count +7 is nothing. I have played at casinos constantly cutting less than 0.5 decks out of 6D. (Casinos no longer back off AP and always give 5.5D/6D penetration.) The RC ended at above +30 quite often, sometimes it ended at +45. That is TC at +60 and +90 for Zen. What do you do when TC is at +90? By the way, when I play hand-shuffled games at the same casino, it gave me the same 5.5D/6D penetration, but I am fortunate to have a shoe reaching RC +25 at the end after playing for hours.
    You have me questioning my TC method. BJGenius, I've never had a TC this high with zen at a 6D shoe. Is this zen version an unbalanced system you're referring too? I've had a few shoes hit TC's in the low 30's at the bitter end, but never this high. My live sampling is approx 115 hours of play. I don't think I've seen a TC this high on Verite training either. I use a full deck rounding method for RC to TC conversion. Figure the RC could never go beyond +36 for a single deck. Are you using 1/2 or 1/4 deck division for TC at the end of the shoe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleChoo View Post
    You have me questioning my TC method. BJGenius, I've never had a TC this high with zen at a 6D shoe. Is this zen version an unbalanced system you're referring too? I've had a few shoes hit TC's in the low 30's at the bitter end, but never this high. My live sampling is approx 115 hours of play. I don't think I've seen a TC this high on Verite training either. I use a full deck rounding method for RC to TC conversion. Figure the RC could never go beyond +36 for a single deck. Are you using 1/2 or 1/4 deck division for TC at the end of the shoe?
    This is the most extreme case. Of 26 cards left, there are 23 face cards, two mid-cards and one small card. RC = +45. TC= +45/0.5 = +90

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    at such an extreme why would you not adjust to quarter or half deck conversations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by notFromTheMidWest View Post
    at such an extreme why would you not adjust to quarter or half deck conversations?
    I am using half deck conversation as implied in the calculation.

  9. #9
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    Your calculation is one deck. when you are at half deck it would be RC=TC not divided by .5

    Unless I'm missing something. 26 cards left is half a deck.

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    I might simply being saying this incorrectly. but a true count conversion based on half or quarter. would seem more accurate instead of staying a one deck the entire shoe once you are deep into it.

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