Smooth bet question ramping

**UncleChoo** · 08-23-2019, 06:07 AM

I really want to focus on bet ramping this weekend. I want to open my spread up to 1 -10. I'm having a hard time developing a natural rhythm here. My goal is to get 3 units +2, 6 units +3, 10 units +4.
I'm usually playing close to full tables so it's not unusual to get +4 mid shoe, play a round and be down to -2. In the past I would just drop down to 1 unit in this spot. With a wider spread now I'm thinking
it's going to look very unnatural doing this. Would it make sense to ramp down slowly on these TC swings even though I'm betting more units in a bad situation? Say I win my max bet, count drops to -2, would it make sense to let max bet float here and adjust after next round? Playing like this would remove the choppy bet ramps, but do you think it would completely neutralize the +ev in the higher counts?

Edit: I found this same question discussed may times here. I will spend more time searching before posting next time.

**21forme** · 08-23-2019, 06:22 AM

After you win the max bet and the count goes negative, quickly answer your phone, say "hang on a minute," pull your bet back, then stand up behind the table and have a conversation.
If the count recovers after the next hand, jump back in, if MSE is permitted.

P.S. You shouldn't be playing full tables.

**UncleChoo** · 08-23-2019, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

After you win the max bet and the count goes negative, quickly answer your phone, say "hang on a minute," pull your bet back, then stand up behind the table and have a conversation.
If the count recovers after the next hand, jump back in, if MSE is permitted.

P.S. You shouldn't be playing full tables.

I understand, I have 3 choices within an hour from me. 1 place is 6:5 paradise, the other is $50 min for good rules, and then a sweet little gem with 85% pen, LS, DAS. The caveat it's always full. To your other point, I guess the art of wonging is what I really need to focus on. Thanks!

**Freightman** · 08-23-2019, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

I really want to focus on bet ramping this weekend. I want to open my spread up to 1 -10. I'm having a hard time developing a natural rhythm here. My goal is to get 3 units +2, 6 units +3, 10 units +4.
I'm usually playing close to full tables so it's not unusual to get +4 mid shoe, play a round and be down to -2. In the past I would just drop down to 1 unit in this spot. With a wider spread now I'm thinking
it's going to look very unnatural doing this. Would it make sense to ramp down slowly on these TC swings even though I'm betting more units in a bad situation? Say I win my max bet, count drops to -2, would it
make sense to let max bet float here and adjust after next round? Playing like this would remove the choppy bet ramps, but do you think it would completely neutralize the +ev in the higher counts?

One of the with a full table is that good counts don’t kast long. You need to act “right now”. Same thing applies to ramping down. The other issue, of course, is the strength of bankroll. With a weak roll, you’re pretty much confined to your sims.

Also, assuming .5 he, 3&6 units for true and 3 looks fine (your edge doubles from 2 to 3, but only increases 50% from 3 to 4), so, you might want to take a look at that.

They’re many factors that go into calculation of ramp - Kelly is only one if them.

**UncleChoo** · 08-23-2019, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Freightman

One of the with a full table is that good counts don’t kast long. You need to act “right now”. Same thing applies to ramping down. The other issue, of course, is the strength of bankroll. With a weak roll, you’re pretty much confined to your sims.

Also, assuming .5 he, 3&6 units for true and 3 looks fine (your edge doubles from 2 to 3, but only increases 50% from 3 to 4), so, you might want to take a look at that.

They’re many factors that go into calculation of ramp - Kelly is only one if them.

Thanks! I didn't realize this. I need to learn how to dissect things a little further than I've been.

**refinery** · 08-23-2019, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

After you win the max bet and the count goes negative, quickly answer your phone, say "hang on a minute," pull your bet back, then stand up behind the table and have a conversation.
If the count recovers after the next hand, jump back in, if MSE is permitted.

P.S. You shouldn't be playing full tables.

Make them tell you that you can't use your phone at the table.

**UncleChoo** · 08-23-2019, 06:50 AM

The other thing that kind of sucks at my haunt is that some of the dealers are ridiculously slow. Another dealer said they get away with it because they've worked there for years. Nothing can be more tilting than when a dealer slow draws to 21 and then slowly looks at you for 3 seconds with a goofy look on their face.

**ZeeBabar** · 08-23-2019, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

The other thing that kind of sucks at my haunt is that some of the dealers are ridiculously slow. Another dealer said they get away with it because they've worked there for years. Nothing can be more tilting than when a dealer slow draws to 21 and then slowly looks at you for 3 seconds with a goofy look on their face.

No fun playing when irritable.

**PinkChip** · 08-23-2019, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

I really want to focus on bet ramping this weekend. I want to open my spread up to 1 -10. I'm having a hard time developing a natural rhythm here. My goal is to get 3 units +2, 6 units +3, 10 units +4.
I'm usually playing close to full tables so it's not unusual to get +4 mid shoe, play a round and be down to -2. In the past I would just drop down to 1 unit in this spot. With a wider spread now I'm thinking
it's going to look very unnatural doing this. Would it make sense to ramp down slowly on these TC swings even though I'm betting more units in a bad situation? Say I win my max bet, count drops to -2, would it make sense to let max bet float here and adjust after next round? Playing like this would remove the choppy bet ramps, but do you think it would completely neutralize the +ev in the higher counts?

Edit: I found this same question discussed may times here. I will spend more time searching before posting next time.

I always miss the number of decks in such questions.

**RTR2021** · 08-23-2019, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by refinery

Make them tell you that you can't use your phone at the table.

Dude, you have the best posts. Honest.

**21frogman** · 08-23-2019, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

then a sweet little gem with 85% pen, LS, DAS. The caveat it's always full.

Does "always full" include very early am?

**RTR2021** · 08-23-2019, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

I understand, I have 3 choices within an hour from me. 1 place is 6:5 paradise, the other is $50 min for good rules, and then a sweet little gem with 85% pen, LS, DAS. The caveat it's always full. To your other point, I guess the art of wonging is what I really need to focus on. Thanks!

With 85% pen, your ramp seems too aggressive. Have you run the game through CV to determine what's optimal?

**UncleChoo** · 08-23-2019, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by PinkChip

I always miss the number of decks in such questions.

I've been playing a 6D game.

Originally Posted by 21frogman

Does "always full" include very early am?

Probably not, I've just been playing on Friday - Sunday late afternoon / evening due to work schedule

Originally Posted by RTR2021

With 85% pen, your ramp seems too aggressive. Have you run the game through CV to determine what's optimal?

I kind of thought this too, but sims show me at 4 units +2, 8 units +3, 10 units +4
Actually, was simming different conditions before - these conditions show +2 3 units, +3 6 units, +4 8 units, +5 10 units