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Thread: Problem with bj verite flash drills ko preferred

  1. #1
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    Problem with bj verite flash drills ko preferred

    Hi Norm,

    I really appreciate using your software for sharpening my skills.

    Maybe I am mis-interpreting the KO Basic and KO Preferred Strategy, but The following moves seem to be different between the Verite Matrix and KO Basic and KO Preferred Strategy:

    Splitting:
    2,2 and 3,3 vs dealer 2 or dealer 3 (KO says only split versus 4 through 7)
    4, 4 (KO says Never split 4s)
    6,6 vs dealer 2 (KO says only split versus 3 through 6)

    Surrendering:
    this one i am not sure about:
    8,8 against dealer 9 or dealer A (KO says surrender (when available) takes p
    riority over all moves--I understand we do surrender 8,8 versus dealer 10 at 'key count')







  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mets View Post
    Hi Norm,

    I really appreciate using your software for sharpening my skills.

    Maybe I am mis-interpreting the KO Basic and KO Preferred Strategy, but The following moves seem to be different between the Verite Matrix and KO Basic and KO Preferred Strategy:

    Splitting:
    2,2 and 3,3 vs dealer 2 or dealer 3 (KO says only split versus 4 through 7)
    4, 4 (KO says Never split 4s)
    6,6 vs dealer 2 (KO says only split versus 3 through 6)

    Surrendering:
    this one i am not sure about:
    8,8 against dealer 9 or dealer A (KO says surrender (when available) takes p
    riority over all moves--I understand we do surrender 8,8 versus dealer 10 at 'key count')






    The first plays you quote are for NDAS. You are obviously comparing them to a DAS matrix.

    As for surrender's being the proper BS for 8,8 vs. 9 or ace, that is obviously wrong. Don't know if you're interpreting K-O correctly, but if, indeed, that is advocated, it's a mistake.

    Don

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    The KO book does not advocate this.

    On pages 28 and 29, the Generic Basic Strategy demands "Always split a pair of Aces and Eights". After the Split table, the table for Hard Hands recommends Surrender for Hard 16 vs. 9,10,A and 15 vs. 10, as usual, but obviously "Hard 16" means a non-pair hand.

    On page 86, there is a KO Preferred index for standing (not surrendering) 16 vs. 9 at the Pivot Point, but this page does not treat Surrender.

    On page 91, the Surrender matrix for Preferred repeats BS that you should surrender 15 vs. 10 and 16 vs. 9,10,A and additionally, when the Pivot Point has been reached (which corresponds to a True Count of +4), you can surrender 16 vs. 8, 15 vs. 9,A and 14 vs.10,A. Then the book states you should surrender 8,8 vs. 10 at the Key Count (which approx. corresponds to a True Count exceeding +1, when you start raising your bets). There is no other recommendation to surrender a pair.
    Last edited by PinkChip; 08-03-2019 at 07:10 PM.

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    Screenshot_20190805-221710.jpg

    Thank you Don, thank you Pink. That clears things for me.

    If that is the case, there is only one move I disagree with in Verite Drills:

    8,8 versus Dealer's A
    verite says always surrender (see screenshot above) should be "PLAY" (never surrender)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mets View Post
    If that is the case, there is only one move I disagree with in Verite Drills:

    8,8 versus Dealer's A
    verite says always surrender (see screenshot above) should be "PLAY" (never surrender)
    Well, the -4 index for surrendering 8,8 vs. Ten is clearly wrong, as well, if these are true counts. There were some ongoing problems that Norm had, where 8,8 was considered 16 and not as a separate hand. Don't know if that is the case here.

    Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Well, the -4 index for surrendering 8,8 vs. Ten is clearly wrong, as well, if these are true counts.
    These are RC from KO.
    And CVIndex say -4

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    88 vs Ace is a bug that I thought I reported to Norm and he corrected.

    the diagram below is inconsistent

    2019-08-06 18_02_06-CVChart Charting Facillity.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe View Post
    These are RC from KO.
    And CVIndex say -4
    Yes, -4 is the Key Count (where you start raising your bets) for KO 6 decks.
    Other numbers of decks require different Key Counts, so Mets has used 6 decks in this case, I assume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkChip View Post
    Yes, -4 is the Key Count (where you start raising your bets) for KO 6 decks.
    Other numbers of decks require different Key Counts, so Mets has used 6 decks in this case, I assume.
    "my" -4 was calculated by CVIndex.
    It's a coincidence that it's also the KC

  10. #10
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    yes, Pinkchip, i use six decks with Verite Games (my small android doesn't work well when i select eight decks --eight decks is really consistent with most games here in the northeast USA (Mets Land))!

    thanks for all the replies everyone hopefully norm can fix the bug

  11. #11
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    KO uses compromise indices. They are not accurate.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    I would need to see all of the settings. You can send them by going to Tools-Export, exporting the configuration used to create this to a file and emailing. There are a lot of settings that affect the decisions.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  13. #13
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    The first KO edition was kind of vague about 88vA surrender with KO Preferred and I try to stick to the books as closely as possible as opposed to what's correct. But, I will change 88vA in the next update.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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