I wondered what pros do? I just read this old thread and it confuses me. Some say, do the splitting regardless of whether there is DAS or NDAS, as the cost is negligible. What are the hands where you do not split pairs in a NDAS game?
check this thread...https://www.blackjackinfo.com/commun...-no-das.13876/
Coincidentally I am just working on this issue (trying to set up a Generic Basic Strategy which is suitable for all numbers of decks, S17/H17, DAS/nDAS etc.
At least for shoe games, the most important differences are
(2,2) and (3,3) vs. dealer 2 or 3
(4,4) vs. dealer 5 or 6
(6,6) vs. dealer 2
which should - according to perfect Basic Strategy - be split only when DAS is allowed.
But the cost of deviating in these situations seem all quite negligible, in the range of about 0.001 to 0.03 percent in EV,
mostly due to the rareness of these situations (the probabilty of occurrence must be multiplied by the difference of EVs between the two alternative plays). See the tables for index numbers and EVs for e.g. 6 decks, S17 and H17 in Don Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack 3.
Some plays are quite borderline (like 16 vs. 10), and some of them are anyway demanded for when playing Single/Double Deck
or when the count starts rising. I came to the conclusion that the following plays can incorporated into the usual Basic Strategy
without trouble:
Double down 9 vs. 2 (not only vs. 3 - 6)
Double down 11 vs. A (not only vs. 2 - 10)
Split (2,2) and (3,3) vs. Dealer 2 and 3
Split (6,6) vs. Dealer 2
However, I am reluctant to Double down on 10 vs. dealer 10 or Ace, because the count must be significantly higher to justify this, so I would not incorporate that into BS, not even for camouflage reasons. But I am still considering on the best trade-offs.
Last edited by PinkChip; 07-29-2019 at 04:48 PM.
Nice post, but one has to wonder: why is it necessary to create such a generic, one-size-fits-all BS in the first place? You already acknowledge knowing the exceptions, so why not continue to use them? Same question for Zee: you know how to read a BS chart. Why not just do what it says to do for the game you are currently playing? Doesn't that make the most sense to everyone?Originally Posted by PinkChip
Don
Don, I read that thread (link in original post) and wanted feedback on it. Also, these days I have been playing 6 deck games or DD games where one is allowed to DAS. When I came across the NDAS, I was wondering the cost of splitting versus not splitting, saw the thread.
Hi Don, yes I know the exceptions, but the question is, how quickly I could remember them in the heat of the battle (live casino play at high dealer speed). I'm currently still in the state of practicing at home using physical material (dealer shoe, discard tray, chip rack) and using Casino Verite. Before I speed up in CV, I want a playing strategy as easy as possible but still sufficiently accurate. Hence the work on a generic BS and reduce of index numbers.
Regarding Generic strategy for any set of rules:
I don't yet know the exact local casino conditions but want to prepare for pitch and shoe games. Of course I could concentrate on two strategies (Double Deck and Six Decks), but there is still the DAS issue and the S17/H17 issue (most "generic" BS charts in literature still assume S17 but nowadays H17 seems more common, also in shoe games). Plus, I am used to practicing for Late Surrender but am wondering what to do when it is not allowed and I suddenly have to switch to Split (8,8 vs 10) or Hit (16 vs. 10 BS) or Stand (16 vs. 10 positive counts or even in some BS cases). Still much to do.
Besides, are the exact rules clear when I approach a table? Are they noted on a sign plate right of the dealer or not? Can I ask for the rules or does that look suspicious? Is it even clear whether they use 6 or 8 decks when the game is in play and they do not spread out all cards on the table beforehand? Sometimes I find it difficult to distinguish 6 from 8 deck shoes from their length (have several at home). Discard trays seem easier to distinguish.
Again regarding playing strategy:
I recognized needing more mental effort and time when it came e.g. to doublings and splits. Also, I read Ian Andersen 's Burning the Tables and liked the idea of his Ultimate Gambit, blending in BS and deviations from it for camouflage reasons. So why make a difference when playing 9 vs. 2 between BS and higher counts when it is not really necessary but could expose me as a counter? is the idea.
Last edited by PinkChip; 07-30-2019 at 06:15 AM.
Because the differences in BS for different games is not really that different. Why not just learn the correct BS charts from the start? Trust me it will serve you well in the future.
After that, if you want to incorporate some "counter's basic strategy" into your game then do so. But learn the correct BS for the games you play first.
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