Problems when customizing KO count in CV (Playing and Betting strategy numbers)

[PinkChip]

Hello

I have difficulties in getting Casino Verite to work with my counting system, which is a customized version of the KO count, but with different IRCs, key counts and pivot points
in order to avoid negative counts, like proposed by Vancura/Fuchs in their book.

They propose e.g a Key Count of +22 rather than +2 for Single Deck, so all values must be elevated by 20. In my case, I tried to elevate all values by 100 for Single Deck (and similar elevations for other deck numbers).

Since I want to play everything from 1 to 8 decks, I guess a Simple Playing Strategy is not sufficient, because I need different IRCs and different bet ramps for different numbers of decks. So I must define an "Advanced" / "Complex" Playing and Betting strategy, right?

I therefore derived a Complex Playing Strategy based upon KO Preferred, and set the Initial Running Counts according to my needs to high positive numbers around 100, depending on the number of decks.

My first problem regards Playing Strategy.

I saw that even after I elevated the Initial Running Counts inherited from KO Preferred, the Index numbers for Insurance are still all +3 (regardless of number of decks), according to the uncustomized Vancura/Fuchs, where the Pivot Point is always +4 and Insurance one less. And the other index tables show the group indices G1 and G2 from KO count are still +4 and -4 etc., despite of my elevation of the Initial Running Counts.

However, with my elevated IRCs, I will never encounter a Running Count of only +3. Do I have to elevate the Insurance counts (in this case e.g. from 3 to 103) and the other index numbers according to my elevated IRC, or does Casino Verite automatically adapt all index numbers?

If yes, is this automatic adaptation only visible during a Play Session and not in the Playing Strategy tables?

My second problem regards Betting Strategy.

I want to setup a Complex Betting Strategy, since I use different bet spreads and different bet ramps depending on number of decks.

But as opposed to Playing Strategy, I could not find a suitable Betting Strategy in the KO Preferred folder to derive my own Betting Strategy (bet ramps). I tried "1-6 spread", but it seemed that it is not possible to set the Running Count betting range to higher values than 50 (see attachment). But I would need e.g. a betting count range from 100 to 105 or something.

Regards
PinkChip

PS: Sorry the screenshots seem much too small, despite having 1920 x 1080 pixels when I uploaded them. I tried to extract the essential content:

PlayingStrategy03GroupsIndexesZoom.jpg
BettingStrategy02CountRangeMax50Zoom.jpg

[Phoebe]

First problem
Did you Look at "Display tables" ?

Second problem.
Norm did not imagine that anyone could use such high count.

[PinkChip]

First problem
Did you Look at "Display tables" ?

Second problem.
Norm did not imagine that anyone could use such high count.

1.) No, it makes no difference whether I look at "Display tables" or "Define/Edit Strategy" and then "Open Strategy".
If I change Insurance counts from 3 to 103, this is saved. But the other indices from KO are still +4, -4 etc.

2.) And Bill Gates did not imagine that anyone could need more than 640 KB RAM on his computer :-)
I think the limitation to +50 is a completely unnecessary restriction of the software. In my case, even a 1 Byte short int would be sufficient to allow also for +100 count values, so I see no need in restricting the maximum betting count to +50. I have good reasons why I want to elevate the KO numbers not only by 20 but by 100.

[This reminds me of the Y2K problem, just because people thought that two-digit year numbers 00..99 would be sufficient.
It takes just one Byte to store integers from -128 to +127 and 2 Bytes from -32768 to +32767.
The Y2K problem had not been arised if they had used just one Byte more in order to store 4-digit year numbers like 1999 and 2000].

[Phoebe]

Ho ! I misunderstood your procedure.
You must simply keep original IRC and set new IRC in "Complex Playing Strategy" window.

2019-07-23 23_59_34-Casino Vérité Playing Strategies.png

[PinkChip]

Hmmm, thanks for the hint, but I think this "Force Initial RC to 100" doesn't work, because I have different IRCs for different numbers of decks. Instead, I must click on "Define/Edit Strategies", then open my own strategy and click on "Counts", see screenshot. Here I can enter different IRCs for different numbers of decks.

PlayingStrategy01IinitialRunningCountsNew.jpg

[Phoebe]

So shift each item in "Insure" and "groups".

[PinkChip]

So shift each item in "Insure" and "groups".

Yes, I could now change the Insure and Groups values according to my needs. This solves the Playing Strategy problem, but still I have the problem with the Betting Strategy (setting up a betting ramp which has values around +100 rather than +50 at most). But many thanks for your hint!

PS: Now my counting system works in CV (Betting Ramp ranges from 30 to 34/35/37/40/42 depending on number of decks, raising of bets starts at 32, Insurance index is 33 etc.). Now Betting and Playing Strategy both work in CV, at least for 6 decks, which I tested. Will test it also for other deck numbers, especially Double Deck).

Thanks for your advice!

[Norm]

Why would anyone want to set counts to such high numbers? The difficulties in keeping a mental count would increase dramatically.

[PinkChip]

Why would anyone want to set counts to such high numbers? The difficulties in keeping a mental count would increase dramatically.

I think starting at an IRC of 100 is actually easier than at zero. You don't have to care about negative numbers and sign switches.

Starting at zero or in the negatives (as in standard Hi-Lo, KO and REKO) means that even when the RC is not hovering up and down, i.e. there is a slug of purely low or purely high cards, you must be aware that when the RC crosses the zero line, the absolute value of the RC is suddenly not decremented but incremented (or vice versa), which is a potential source of error.

Regarding the length of the spoken or thought numbers, counting "minus two, minus one, zero, plus one, plus two" can be shortened to "m two, m one, zero, one, two" , but you can likewise shorten "98, 99, 100, 101, 102" to "98, 99, hundred, 1, 2" etc.

The idea of starting the RC around 100 is btw. also seconded by literature, e.g. Fred Renzey in "Blackjack Bluebook II", 2006 edition, Chapter 12 "Mentor Count", pages 198-199, section "A 100 Counting Base" does exactly the same. I might have read this in additional books, too (have read about 25 such books), but can't exactly remember now.

[Liverpool-007]

Hi PinkChip, its my 2nd day with CV and the forum, and a week after reading KO Vancura/Fuchs. I've been using BJA and enjoy the site very much, but it doesn't teach or simulate KO, that's when I purchased CV and came across your post the same day. I start my IRC at 15 and Key Count at 31 to avoid negative #s, so I can appreciate your start at 100. I've been able to modify a KO game on CV to start my IRC at 15, but haven't been able to adjust anything else, even after reading your post a few times. Any direction, screen shots, or additional tips you might offer would be appreciated. (Of course, Norm and company as well, if they read this post).

Please let me know how I can reciprocate. I'm in Colorado.

Thanks, Liverpool-007

P.S. enjoyed your podcast interviews and Holy Rollers

[Wave]

P.S. enjoyed your podcast interviews and Holy Rollers

I could very well be incorrect, but I don't think the PinkChip here was a member of the Church Team.

I think Arnold Snyder also referenced modifying the IRC to avoid negative numbers in Blackbelt in Blackjack. I use REKO 6 Deck Full with an IRC 30 and have never had to use a negative number. I guess it's possible, but I Wong out alot.

[Liverpool-007]

Thank you Wave! (2 PinkChips?! Hmmm)

[Norm]

There is an example in the manual titled Playing Strategies (Quick Primer) which provides an example of how to create a KO strategy from scratch. You only need to modify the existing strategy. But, that should provide some guidance.