maintaining bankroll? what do you do?

[Counting_Is_Fun]

I disagree that somebody just learning the game needs to have a bankroll 1000 times their minimum wager. There is a huge difference between the professional and the recreational player - especially if the recreational player is a novice. consider the cheap $5 table. Should a novice really have (and be willing to risk!) $5,000?

Rather... A recreational player will gamble with his/her "entertainment" money - preferably what s/he reasonably budgets on a monthly basis. However seriously s/he takes the game, when the money is gone, s/he should stop playing until more "entertainment" money is budgeted. This does not stop the rec player from learning to play well. It simply means that, while learning, s/he should not comport him/herself as a professional

Here is what I did: I gave myself a $200/mo. budget. in March, I lost it. In April, I replenished the $200 and won $1200. I now had a $1400 bankroll and no longer replenished from my household budget. in May, I lost $200 (bankroll = $1200). In June I won roughly $600 and so far in July, I am up $500. I now have a $2300 bankroll. Some of which, I will put into savings at the end of the month.

As a recreational player, I approach my budget very differently than somebody who is making a living at the tables. However, i would, at this point, be a damn fool to bring $5000 to a casino and be willing to risk it. I limit myself to losing $200 in a day (unless I am in the middle of a shop with a very advantageous count...) I would suggest that anybody just starting out approach bankroll management more like this (with dollar amounts set in accordance with a personal budget) than what a professional player would need to do.

You are basically playing with a "hail Mary" bankroll. So far so good, you are winning and experiencing some positive variance. But realistically, chances are you are going to go broke. Nothing wrong with playing a hail Mary, but there are reasons why a real bankroll is needed, to survive the negative variance of this crazy game.

[Splitting Tens]

You are basically playing with a "hail Mary" bankroll. So far so good, you are winning and experiencing some positive variance. But realistically, chances are you are going to go broke. Nothing wrong with playing a hail Mary, but there are reasons why a real bankroll is needed, to survive the negative variance of this crazy game.

You are suggesting that I should comport myself as a professional. Bankroll advice that does not fit who I am or the type of player I am is bad advice. No new player should be running around with a "real" bankroll. I won't "go broke" playing at the tables as I won't bring enough money to the casino to allow that to happen. I have a 0% risk of ruin. Might I lose my $200? Sure. However, that's fine - I can shrug it off and go on with my life. Moreover, I can give myself another $200 the following month.

Consider, from another perspective: Players learning the game make more mistakes than professionals. I know I do. (I recognize some moments after making them. Others I catch as I continue to learn my indices). There is no way to calculate a professional bankroll for such players as, due to error-prone play, we will being playing with an unknown EV. Therefore, it is far wiser for recreational and novice players to choose a bankroll that s/he can afford to lose and play on low limit tables.

At this point, I know I am playing with an advantage - this wasn't the case several months ago. I could still lose my $200. However, overall the trend in my bankroll will be upwards.

[refinery]

You are suggesting that I should comport myself as a professional. Bankroll advice that does not fit who I am or the type of player I am is bad advice. No new player should be running around with a "real" bankroll. I won't "go broke" playing at the tables as I won't bring enough money to the casino to allow that to happen. I have a 0% risk of ruin. Might I lose my $200? Sure. However, that's fine - I can shrug it off and go on with my life. Moreover, I can give myself another $200 the following month.

Consider, from another perspective: Players learning the game make more mistakes than professionals. I know I do. (I recognize some moments after making them. Others I catch as I continue to learn my indices). There is no way to calculate a professional bankroll for such players as, due to error-prone play, we will being playing with an unknown EV. Therefore, it is far wiser for recreational and novice players to choose a bankroll that s/he can afford to lose and play on low limit tables.

At this point, I know I am playing with an advantage - this wasn't the case several months ago. I could still lose my $200. However, overall the trend in my bankroll will be upwards.

You're giving out really bad advice. What is your top bet?

[Splitting Tens]

Refinery -
I play small - $3-$20. I am not at all pretending to be a professional player. I am simply stating that those of us who are not, should not be running to a casino with thousands of dollars. What I am suggesting would be very poor for somebody trying to make a living at the tables. However, the suggestion that somebody who is just learning the the game (such as the OP, who has clearly stated that s/he has only $150-$350) should be willing to risk $5K is very poor. Until a player has built enough skill and established a bankroll s/he is willing to lose, that player should not attempt to conduct himself like a professional. Keep it to recreational play. Only risk what the personal budget can afford. Learn the game. Let the bankroll grow over time.

[refinery]

Refinery -
I play small - $3-$20. I am not at all pretending to be a professional player. I am simply stating that those of us who are not, should not be running to a casino with thousands of dollars. What I am suggesting would be very poor for somebody trying to make a living at the tables. However, the suggestion that somebody who is just learning the the game (such as the OP, who has clearly stated that s/he has only $150-$350) should be willing to risk $5K is very poor. Until a player has built enough skill and established a bankroll s/he is willing to lose, that player should not attempt to conduct himself like a professional. Keep it to recreational play. Only risk what the personal budget can afford. Learn the game. Let the bankroll grow over time.

It's all so backwards I'm having trouble collecting my thoughts on this. My point was simply going to be that you could easily lose 90% of your $200 in one round! Out of curiosity I simmed the best possible game I could think of and came up with around $12 an hour. That's a total fiction because you'd never actually find this game.

I'm glad you find something that works for you? Can't even wrap my head around it. Your EV is realistically around $5 per hour. Absolute folly.

[Splitting Tens]

You are struggling to wrap your head around it because you are thinking about it as a professional.
I am a learner, not a professional. I am happy to earn $5-$10/hr while I am improving my counting, learning indices, etc. I make my living as a mathematician. Cards are a hobby - nothing more. When my skills advance and my bankroll naturally grows, I'll raise how much I'm willing to bet. For now, however, betting larger amounts would be foolish.

The game I play:
Spanish 21, 5 decks, H17, redoubling up to three times, split any pair any time, double any time. $3 minimum bet. If I am playing with others, I Wong out when the count gets to -7 (3 below natural). However, if it gets to be -12, I wong back in and play the side bets (as they become advantageous). I use Katarina Walker's book extensively....

[BoSox]

You are suggesting that I should comport myself as a professional. Bankroll advice that does not fit who I am or the type of player I am is bad advice. No new player should be running around with a "real" bankroll. I won't "go broke" playing at the tables as I won't bring enough money to the casino to allow that to happen. I have a 0% risk of ruin. Might I lose my $200? Sure. However, that's fine - I can shrug it off and go on with my life. Moreover, I can give myself another $200 the following month.

Something is off. When you first started posting you were limiting any losses to $200 a month. Yesterday you changed that to $200 a day for limiting losses a rather significant change in plans. But today's posting you are back again to $200 a month what gives? Did you by chance lose two days in a row? Yesterday's post below by you:


"

As a recreational player, I approach my budget very differently than somebody who is making a living at the tables. However, i would, at this point, be a damn fool to bring $5000 to a casino and be willing to risk it. I limit myself to losing $200 in a day (unless I am in the middle of a shop with a very advantageous count...) I would suggest that anybody just starting out approach bankroll management more like this (with dollar amounts set in accordance with a personal budget) than what a professional player would need to do"

[Splitting Tens]

Both are true. I’m up several hundred this month. If I lose two hundred tomorrow, I’ll be done for the day. However, I’ll still be up for the month and will play again. Once I am down $200 for the month, I’ll quit.

[refinery]

You are struggling to wrap your head around it because you are thinking about it as a professional.

Trust me, that's not why. There's so many misconceptions and bad ideas about your technique, it's blown my mind.

[Splitting Tens]

then... what do you suggest somebody learning the game do?

[Freightman]

then... what do you suggest somebody learning the game do?

Personally, GIVEN (stated capitalized for the assholes who like to nitpick) your stated parameters, I don’t see any issues.

Further, what you’ve clearly intimated, is that your bankroll is replenishable. As $200 per month income is not designated for any necessary expense, you can theorize an additional $2000 to your bankroll to increase betting ramps (actually more). As you’ve also stated, when you are down $200 for the month, regardless at what point of the month, you’re done until the next month. Food for thought.

[Splitting Tens]

I understand your caution, because I used to play that way, but I hope you are not stopping in the middle of a shoe with a + count just because you were -$200. I'm pretty sure the senior members of the forum would agree that loss/win stops hurt you in the long run, and I've run my own sims to confirm it.

I do not quit mid-shoe with an advantageous count when I hit my $200 limit. However, if I am still down when the count turns poor or the shoe ends, I do stop. I play like this because I recognize that I have room to improve as a player and I do not want to risk my financial health. When I am a stronger player and have been able to grow my gambling budget, I’ll put more at risk.

This certainly is not in line with optimal betting, but it is in line with being responsible.

[Freightman]

I do not quit mid-shoe with an advantageous count when I hit my $200 limit. However, if I am still down when the count turns poor or the shoe ends, I do stop.

Stated clearly last paragraph post 13.