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Thread: Any new info/updates on “rigged CSM(aka. Card clumping)” conspiracy?

  1. #1


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    Any new info/updates on “rigged CSM(aka. Card clumping)” conspiracy?

    I am aware this is a sensitive topic to lay out, so I am just going to be careful and quick - any newly confirmed information on “card clumping” rumours/conspiracy?

    (Its been almost a year since I last visited here so)

    thank you

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by Planisphere View Post
    Any new info/updates on “rigged CSM(aka. Card clumping)” conspiracy?
    Very, very few people on this board play against continuous shuffle machines.

  3. #3


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    28 consecutive cards dealt less than 10 value...

    Please, forgive me. I'm new to the website and don't know my way around yet. I wanted to reply to a post from a person who said they saw 28 consecutive cards dealt that were less than 10 value. I am a retired computer programmer and I've written a BJ play and analysis program for my own pleasure and the person's statement that a friend had told him that the odds of this occurring were 1:6,000+ intrigued me. So, I decided to find out for myself and I wrote a routine to shuffle continuously an 8-deck shoe until the number of consecutive cards I specified were found. I looked for 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 14, and 20 consecutive cards < 10 value.

    First, my shuffle routine is completely random and not weighted in any way. The following data is for a 8-deck shoe.
    Here are my findings...

    SEARCHING FOR CONSECUTIVE CARDS LT (Less tan) 10 VALUE
    NUM LT10 CARDS NUMBER of SHUFFLES TO FIND THESE CARDS
    4 20, 1, 2, 14, 20
    6 43, 16, 25, 43, 25
    8 43, 16, 24, 46, 24
    10 52, 216, 42, 187, 101
    12 117, 14, 1063, 27, 276
    14 934, 540, 894, 455, 59

    20 NOT FOUND IN 10,000 SHUFFLES
    So, I ran the routine searching for 20 consecutive cards less than 10 value, but only up to 50,000 shuffles max and found
    20 consecutive cards < 10 value at the 16,900th shuffle.

    If it took 16,900 shuffles to find 20 consecutive cards lower than 10 value, I'm not sure that I'd be able to find 28 consecutive cards in 100,000 shuffles.
    I wouldn't say that the dealer cheated the players who received 28 consecutive cards lower than 10, but, I wouldn't play there again.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by delphiguru View Post
    Please, forgive me. I'm new to the website and don't know my way around yet. I wanted to reply to a post from a person who said they saw 28 consecutive cards dealt that were less than 10 value. I am a retired computer programmer and I've written a BJ play and analysis program for my own pleasure and the person's statement that a friend had told him that the odds of this occurring were 1:6,000+ intrigued me. So, I decided to find out for myself and I wrote a routine to shuffle continuously an 8-deck shoe until the number of consecutive cards I specified were found. I looked for 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 14, and 20 consecutive cards < 10 value.

    First, my shuffle routine is completely random and not weighted in any way. The following data is for a 8-deck shoe.
    Here are my findings...

    SEARCHING FOR CONSECUTIVE CARDS LT (Less tan) 10 VALUE
    NUM LT10 CARDS NUMBER of SHUFFLES TO FIND THESE CARDS
    4 20, 1, 2, 14, 20
    6 43, 16, 25, 43, 25
    8 43, 16, 24, 46, 24
    10 52, 216, 42, 187, 101
    12 117, 14, 1063, 27, 276
    14 934, 540, 894, 455, 59

    20 NOT FOUND IN 10,000 SHUFFLES
    So, I ran the routine searching for 20 consecutive cards less than 10 value, but only up to 50,000 shuffles max and found
    20 consecutive cards < 10 value at the 16,900th shuffle.

    If it took 16,900 shuffles to find 20 consecutive cards lower than 10 value, I'm not sure that I'd be able to find 28 consecutive cards in 100,000 shuffles.
    I wouldn't say that the dealer cheated the players who received 28 consecutive cards lower than 10, but, I wouldn't play there again.
    How about this one I recently saw a dealer hitting his own five-card soft 15 on one of those ASM. After a few minutes, I was not surprised as I have split aces as well as seen others do the same to four hands plenty of times this year. In fairness, I should say I have been on a very nice recent 7 week run that helped me get booted from one joint while playing against ASM.
    Last edited by BoSox; 08-02-2019 at 04:22 PM.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by delphiguru View Post
    <snip>SEARCHING FOR CONSECUTIVE CARDS LT (Less tan) 10 VALUE
    NUM LT10 CARDS NUMBER of SHUFFLES TO FIND THESE CARDS
    4 20, 1, 2, 14, 20
    6 43, 16, 25, 43, 25
    8 43, 16, 24, 46, 24
    10 52, 216, 42, 187, 101
    12 117, 14, 1063, 27, 276
    14 934, 540, 894, 455, 59

    20 NOT FOUND IN 10,000 SHUFFLES
    So, I ran the routine searching for 20 consecutive cards less than 10 value, but only up to 50,000 shuffles max and found
    20 consecutive cards < 10 value at the 16,900th shuffle.
    <snip>
    delphiguru,

    Please help me understand your data.

    For example, what does the line quoted above beginning with 10 mean? How many shuffles did you need to find 10 consecutive non-X's? 52? 216? 42? I'm not sure how to read your table.

    Thanks in advance!

    Dog Hand

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