Is this counter trying to help or hurt me?

**BJGenius007** · 08-24-2018, 05:53 AM

I have played with this AP before. In the past I saw him spread with standard 20 to 1 in shoe game. I understand he had to come to my table because it is a busy weekend. And he only modestly spread to 4 to 1 when he had the advantage and won the previous hands as I would have the max bet 16x or 18x. He doesn't want surveillance to find out he is also AP if they were monitoring me.

So I lost three max bets because he played his hands differently than he usually would have. The first is that he did not double soft 18 against 5. So dealer got a 2 to make multiple card 21. The second is that he stands on soft 17 against 2. The third case is that he stands 13 against 8. On all the cases, I have split or doubled. Did he try to conserve the high cards or to get me off the table?

**ZeeBabar** · 08-24-2018, 06:11 AM

This is silly. Other players and what they draw cannot hurt you over the long haul. I have been helped by ploppies doubling a 12 against a 6 or staying on A,7 at times, hurt at other times.

What another player does as far as standing or hitting does not affect you. You will hear from others soon. They will explain better than I can.

**BJGenius007** · 08-24-2018, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

This is silly. Other players and what they draw cannot hurt you over the long haul. I have been helped by ploppies doubling a 12 against a 6 or staying on A,7 at times, hurt at other times.

What another player does as far as standing or hitting does not affect you. You will hear from others soon. They will explain better than I can.

I understand your view of point. I wouldn't ask if this is just a random ploppy. But this is an AP who knows ABC of this game. I want to go into his mindset and see what makes him depart from his usual actions.

**Letangs** · 08-24-2018, 06:32 AM

Are you trolling on purpose ?

**CountinCanadian** · 08-24-2018, 08:01 AM

What they do can't hurt you, he was equally as likely to help you. Maybe he was trying to conserve high cards, that's what you should do if you have a complete toss up for a playing decision in high counts, though his decisions were far from toss ups. Either way, he was not harming or helping you, other than being at the table taking your cards the same way anyone else would.

**BJGenius007** · 08-24-2018, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by CountinCanadian

Either way, he was not harming or helping you, other than being at the table taking your cards the same way anyone else would.

I know he was not harming or helping me. My question is if he was TRYING to harm or help me. Since his max bet when I am present is only 4x, conserving high cards is little concern for him in my opinion.

**Stealth** · 08-24-2018, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

My question is if he was TRYING to harm or help me.

He has no ability to control harming or helping you. His specific play on any given hand may antidotally impact a play, as do all his plays, but that does not mean he has any control over the results.

This whole line of thinking is ploppyish and counter productive.

**Three** · 08-24-2018, 08:37 AM

He is probably trying to drive you off the table. He must have bought some ploppy thoughts you have espoused and thinks you are going to react like a ploppy. Poppies often don't care if you help them. They just like to blame others for their losses. They sure as hell don't want to thank others for their wins. They believe they win because they know what they are doing and lose because someone messed them up.

**BJGenius007** · 08-24-2018, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Three

He is probably trying to drive you off the table. He must have bought some ploppy thoughts you have espoused and thinks you are going to react like a ploppy. Poppies often don't care if you help them. They just like to blame others for their losses. They sure as hell don't want to thank others for their wins. They believe they win because they know what they are doing and lose because someone messed them up.

Bingo! I totally agree with Three. He chose sacrificing his little bet, at least did not play optimally, in hope to drive me off the table.

How could we live without Three's words of wisdom?

**Meistro123** · 08-24-2018, 11:19 AM

His specific play on any given hand may antidotally impact a play

As in provide a cure for the dealer's 21? Perhaps you mean ANECDOTALLY.

**Dbs6582** · 08-24-2018, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

The second is that he stands on soft 17 against 2. The third case is that he stands 13 against 8. On all the cases, I have split or doubled. Did he try to conserve the high cards or to get me off the table?

These moves made no sense if he was an AP, or even just a good BS player. Staying on a soft 17 doesn’t make people leave the table. He should know that. It just hurts him. Splitting 10s or hitting a 12 thro 16 against 5 or 6 might make people leave the table, but staying on soft 17 doesn’t accomplish anything, except hurt him. This is done all the time by ploppies. Are you sure he isn’t a ploppy?

**Freightman** · 08-24-2018, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dbs6582

These moves made no sense if he was an AP, or even just a good BS player. Staying on a soft 17 doesn’t make people leave the table. He should know that. It just hurts him. Splitting 10s or hitting a 12 thro 16 against 5 or 6 might make people leave the table, but staying on soft 17 doesn’t accomplish anything, except hurt him. This is done all the time by ploppies. Are you sure he isn’t a ploppy?

Serious response
Sometimes, your new nemesis is both competent and an asshole. I recall one such individual some yeats back, that I somehow managed to piss off. It’s really very funny when an Asian guy, with a lisp, says “suck my dick” and then makes a play similar to the one described.

Modus operandi of said individuals is to wait for you to make a big bet, they bet after you at min, pulling off bullshit, hopefully pissing you off when you lose. It’s nice to thank saud indivudual when such plays result in you winning. You can thank them for being an asshole.

**Three** · 08-24-2018, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dbs6582

These moves made no sense if he was an AP, or even just a good BS player. Staying on a soft 17 doesn’t make people leave the table. He should know that. It just hurts him. Splitting 10s or hitting a 12 thro 16 against 5 or 6 might make people leave the table, but staying on soft 17 doesn’t accomplish anything, except hurt him. This is done all the time by ploppies. Are you sure he isn’t a ploppy?

I have seen people leave the table because I surrendered instead of stood swearing that not standing cost them the hand. It is pretty easy to get rid of people like this. They are in denial that they lose because they suck at BJ. They want to blame someone else for their losses. When they see someone do something they disagree with they found the blame for their losses. It clearly doesn't have to make sense since surrendering and standing use the same number of cards. I think it is funny when they sit out of high counts to mess me up when I am betting big by changing the cards when they drop a hand or hands. Some will sit out every time I bet big just to mess me up. I thank them for my usual good fortune in these situations. They are like the NASCAR fans just hoping to witness a bad wreck. If they watch long enough they usually see what they wanted to see and feel gratified. It doesn't matter if you are way ahead for the time they sat out. they don't see reality.