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Thread: Brief Colorado trip report

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    Brief Colorado trip report

    First, I am a recreational player. There is a lot of discussion and paranoia and threats to "out" me. I done outed myself often, am in OSN and the casinos dont care. If they read this forum and the posts about me from reknowned AP's here, I am a lousy player who has simply been lucky. This forum has helped convince the casinos reading this forum that I am a part tiume recreational player who is incopmpetent, OSN be damned. Because they believe the determination by folks like 21forme, I am simply not good, they let me play.

    Now, on to the trip report. It was a new experioence in many ways cause I had never seen some things.

    1. Chip trays are different. They seem to have a half tray with chips as in any casino and anogther half where a whole lot of chips are stacked up. When the c hips in the tray are low, they just reach into the other side and take more chips out into the tray. Far fewer re-fills.

    2, Dealers at gthe two major casinos (where I played most of the time) carry their own tip box. When a new dealer comes, the dealer takes his tip can and the new dealer puts his in. It seems dealers keep their own tips. Though I never did see any tip hustling. The dealers and pit were among gthe best I saw anywhere in the USA.

    3. While there are many casinos, most were small and even the larger ones had few BJ tables except for gthe two buggest ones.

    4. CO is the only place where you do not hear "Chips play" or something like it.

    4. Some of the best DD games and 6 deck games had a different lay out on the table. Basically, each of these layouts meant ONLY 3 players at each table. Each player gets 3 spots reserved for themselves. This has its pros and cons. The pros...unlike anywhere else, you can keep switching from 1 hand to 3 hands, back to 2 or 1 and it is expected. There is no "double the minimum" and no heat for going from 1 hand to 2 or 3 or vice versa. Playing these games screwed me up (I did not know I was playing with another AP or pissing someone off) because, as I often do elsewhere, I sometimes start with 2 hands, drop to one, go back to two. Thus, I was starting with a $25 min bet, if the count went to TC1 or 2, I would sometimes switch to 2 hands or 3 hands of $25. In any case, I lost heavily the first day, because I had not anticipated either gthe layout or how to play 3 spots reserved for me. The second day forward, I only went gto the second spot if I was going gto bet more than $100 because of the table max and went gto the third hand if I was going gto bet more than $200. The cons... it was hard gto plan because you never knew how the two ploppies would play. Sometimes, I was on third base, the ploppy on first base would play 2 or 3 of her spots with $25 each and then the second ploppy might also play 2-3 so all of a suddent the DD game was being dealt to 6 plus spots. Sometimes the ploppies would play one spot each and gthen it is a good game, Unlike elsewhere, the number of players wouyld be the same but gthe number of spots being played would change each round.

    5. I had not considered CO before because I, like many others, had assumed that it was a red chip state because the max bet is $100. It had never occured to me that 3 spots were reserved for each player and thus the max one can bet is $300. There were only 3-4 DD games $25 minimum. There are a lot of 6 deck games in the two major casinos with $15 minimum. I suppose that because the max one can bet is $300, there simply is not much heat. I never felt any. Penetration is excellent with about 75% in DD and 90% in 6 deck games. I never saw more than 1 deck cut off.

    As a recreational player, I am satisfied in breaking even. On this trip, I lost $1800 the first day because I was judging playable games as those with 4 or less players and it was only aftter I sat down did I see that because it was so common for each player to play 2-3 spots, the game was bad. It was only after reviewing my losing first day did I formulkate plans for the second and third days. Being conservative, I had to spend many hours in the two casinos to recover. I did not realize that I had pissed off some local AP's. I did not go there or ever try to crash and burn. I returned home with a net loss of $200 including expenses. In strict terms, I won $500, had spent $700 going there. I apologize to the local players if there are any on this forum.

    I saw some interesting stuff like a table reserved for a minimum $100 (when the sign says the max bet is $100). The player playing at gthat table was betting $100 on 1-3 spots. I saw AP's going from 1 hand of $25 to 3 hands of $100 each quite often, even when playing with a players card (I suppose, with max bet of $300 total, the higher ups dont worry about the ocasssional AP). One AP would either simply take a break or ask one of gthe ploppies to request a new shoe if the count went negative. The pit would almost always okay it.

    Bottom line, while the games are good, there were only 3 $25 min. DD games and since the max number on each table is only 3, only 9 players can be playing the DD tables. Thus, most evenings, and weekend, the DD tables were full and even when you did get gto be one of the players playing, the games were poorer for the ploppies (mostly Asians) who would play 2-3 spots all the time. Late nights and till a bit after Noon, gthe DD games were good. The 6 deck games are plenty at the two largest casinos and they are good but crowding is still an issue.

    I dont think a calculated trip is worth it for full time AP's since I think only 2 casinos, maybe 3 are available and CO is more expensive than Las Vegas (fewer cheap options like renmtal cars or motels). For the recreational player, its great during the warm months because the scenery is spectacular, MT. Evans and Ech lakes (wih hiking trails and such) offer a great family vacation. You can play while your family drives around nearby.

    Once again, I apologize to local players. I dont think it would hurt you as much as you fear.

  2. #2


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    z
    You neglected to discuss the rule set(s) available in CO.
    z

  3. #3


    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Good trip report, Zee. You don't owe an apology to anyone. However, I think they owe you an apology.

  4. #4


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    I agree with Midwest Player. Excellent trip report! I always enjoy them and learn from them. Thanks!

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyBJplayer View Post
    z
    You neglected to discuss the rule set(s) available in CO.
    z
    Thanks all of you. The rules are quite standard. H17 and standard rules at 6 deck, in DD, you cant double after splits. Its the friendly dealers, friendly pit personnel, very good penetration and the actual encouragement to play more hands that are attractive. The scenery is awesone.

    One other thing I forgot to add is that there are "dispensaries" selling marijuana all over the place in CO. Another is gthat there are no "cashhier's cages" there, you go to "guest services", no bars, not locked rooms, more like a hotel lobby check in.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Thanks all of you. The rules are quite standard. H17 and standard rules at 6 deck, in DD, you cant double after splits. Its the friendly dealers, friendly pit personnel, very good penetration and the actual encouragement to play more hands that are attractive. The scenery is awesone.

    One other thing I forgot to add is that there are "dispensaries" selling marijuana all over the place in CO. Another is gthat there are no "cashhier's cages" there, you go to "guest services", no bars, not locked rooms, more like a hotel lobby check in.
    Zee, are you sure you can't double after split on double deck in Black Hawk. I just checked CBJN and 4 of the 5 casinos that have double deck list double after split. The Lodge is the only exception.

    I'm also aware of a casino where dealers keep their own tips. The dealers do seem to be more polite and friendly when this is the case. However, whoever is reporting for CBJN in Black Hawk omitted this. The CBJN code for dealers keeping their own tips is "toke" and it is missing for all the Black Hawk area casinos.
    Last edited by Midwest Player; 05-17-2019 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #7


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    Zee - we have no problem with your report above and no hard feelings. There were at least 4 of us who saw you play and at least 3 of us sharing a table with you at some point and you were quickly identified. How and why did that happen? Because you announce your plans in advance - not good form! Even though most casinos find you not a threat, you can't play near home any more. This proves all casinos don't act rationally which is to your detriment.

    Midwest player is correct that Lodge is NDAS. All the others are DAS, but don't let you go from 1 hand to 2. If you start with 2, you can drop back to 1, but you can't go back up to 2 until the shuffle.

    I know you played Lodge and Ameristar, as that's where we encountered you. Other "big" casinos which you may have missed include Isle and Monarch. Isle's DD game is dealt from a shoe and cut 50%, so you didn't miss anything there. Monarch has a good game on paper, but backoffs come quickly. I don't know any locals who can still play Monarch.

    Now some play feedback which hopefully you'll take graciously and use as a learning experience:

    1. Sidebets - You played 15$ on bust bonus usually with a 5 or 6 up. When one of us asked you, "do you have any idea what the house edge on this is?" You didn't. It's 8%! You said, 'well I saw a table full of low cards come out, so I figured the dealer is due to bust." Never bet something unless you know the math!

    2. One of us got a kick out of you saying, "I've never seen that play in 20 years of blackjack." The play was doubling a hard 5 v dealer 5. The HiLo TC was +14. At that count, it's the correct play as the dealer bust rate is way over 50%. That was also a correct time to play bust bonus.

    3. One of us has friends in casino management and your play was evaluated and you were deemed not a threat. Playing bust bonus probably helped.

    4. At one point, you had a 66v2, turned around and asked one of the guys watching you, "what should I do? Do you split if you can't double?" That's the kind of thing you should be prepared for. Even if you didn't know it was NDAS in advance, as soon as you find that out, you stop playing, go back to your car or hotel room, pull out Wong's Professional Blackjack, and go to the tables with the indexes for NDAS.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Member Name Hidden View Post
    Zee - we have no problem with your report above and no hard feelings. There were at least 4 of us who saw you play and at least 3 of us sharing a table

    I know you played Lodge and Ameristar, as that's where we encountered you. Other "big" casinos which you may have missed include Isle and Monarch. Isle's DD game is dealt from a shoe and cut 50%, so you didn't miss anything there. Monarch has a good game on paper, but backoffs come quickly. I don't know any locals who can still play Monarch.

    DD centre cut can be beat. Heads up preferably with a huge spread. If they’re quick to back off as you say - a waste of time.

    Now some play feedback which hopefully you'll take graciously and use as a learning experience:

    1. Sidebets - You played 15$ on bust bonus usually with a 5 or 6 up. When one of us asked you, "do you have any idea what the house edge on this is?" You didn't. It's 8%! You said, 'well I saw a table full of low cards come out, so I figured the dealer is due to bust." Never bet something unless you know the math!

    Zee, $15 sidebets on huge house edge - shame on you - explains a lot of bullshit.

    2. One of us got a kick out of you saying, "I've never seen that play in 20 years of blackjack." The play was doubling a hard 5 v dealer 5. The HiLo TC was +14. At that count, it's the correct play as the dealer bust rate is way over 50%. That was also a correct time to play bust bonus.

    I’ve never doubled 5v5, never had the opportunity. However, I have doubled 7 v 5. A good steamer bet out when you have an absolute monster bet out. I play primarily shoe, so those are pretty tough situations to get.

    3. One of us has friends in casino management and your play was evaluated and you were deemed not a threat. Playing bust bonus probably helped.

    Zee, correlate the above comment and consider the multitudes of comments made to you on how you damage newbies.

    4. At one point, you had a 66v2, turned around and asked one of the guys watching you, "what should I do? Do you split if you can't double?" That's the kind of thing you should be prepared for. Even if you didn't know it was NDAS in advance, as soon as you find that out, you stop playing, go back to your car or hotel room, pull out Wong's Professional Blackjack, and go to the tables with the indexes for NDAS.
    If it’s an act great, but don’t think the audience believe it’s an act. Study your tables.

    Nice post, good observations, some more comments with my thoughts under yours.

    Perhaps the Dipshit can sing accolades to your bravado.

  9. #9


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    Welcome back Freightman. I had to unIgnore Zee temporarilly to follow this soap opera. Zee, shame on you for mentioning me in your post. Don't you complain about me bringing you up in my posts?!

    In my latest attempt to refrain from commenting on Zee's post, I'll end it here

    I suggest you review RCJH's recent comments in the other CO thread. He makes some very good points.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Member Name Hidden View Post
    Zee - we have no problem with your report above and no hard feelings. There were at least 4 of us who saw you play and at least 3 of us sharing a table with you at some point and you were quickly identified. How and why did that happen? Because you announce your plans in advance - not good form! Even though most casinos find you not a threat, you can't play near home any more. This proves all casinos don't act rationally which is to your detriment.

    Midwest player is correct that Lodge is NDAS. All the others are DAS, but don't let you go from 1 hand to 2. If you start with 2, you can drop back to 1, but you can't go back up to 2 until the shuffle.

    I know you played Lodge and Ameristar, as that's where we encountered you. Other "big" casinos which you may have missed include Isle and Monarch. Isle's DD game is dealt from a shoe and cut 50%, so you didn't miss anything there. Monarch has a good game on paper, but backoffs come quickly. I don't know any locals who can still play Monarch.

    Now some play feedback which hopefully you'll take graciously and use as a learning experience:

    1. Sidebets - You played 15$ on bust bonus usually with a 5 or 6 up. When one of us asked you, "do you have any idea what the house edge on this is?" You didn't. It's 8%! You said, 'well I saw a table full of low cards come out, so I figured the dealer is due to bust." Never bet something unless you know the math!

    2. One of us got a kick out of you saying, "I've never seen that play in 20 years of blackjack." The play was doubling a hard 5 v dealer 5. The HiLo TC was +14. At that count, it's the correct play as the dealer bust rate is way over 50%. That was also a correct time to play bust bonus.

    3. One of us has friends in casino management and your play was evaluated and you were deemed not a threat. Playing bust bonus probably helped.

    4. At one point, you had a 66v2, turned around and asked one of the guys watching you, "what should I do? Do you split if you can't double?" That's the kind of thing you should be prepared for. Even if you didn't know it was NDAS in advance, as soon as you find that out, you stop playing, go back to your car or hotel room, pull out Wong's Professional Blackjack, and go to the tables with the indexes for NDAS.
    Thanks for all the advice. Glad you guys are not particularly pissed off at me. I have kept repeating on this forum for years that I am a recreational player with very modest goals. I get by with what little I know. I never ever simmed anything, BJA, most of it, was over my head. I basically play HiLo, started with I-18, added maybe 5 or so more deviations. That is enough for me. As you might have noticed, I play very conservatively. The motivation simply is not there as I dont need/use money from BJ to pay bills. I did not retire from my job to study or work. I dont even think I can learn much at this stage.

    Sometime before the end of the summer, I will likely make another visit. I could only identify two AP's and one of them was the one who commented on my playing the bust bet. He seemed a very nice guy. If you see me again, I would certainly like to treat you to dinner. Warm regards to you guys.

  11. #11


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    Zee, here are some non blackjack related questions about your trip.

    It appears you rented a car. Did you rent at the airport or some other place? How much did your total car rental come to including gas? Did you take the train from the airport?

    How long did it take to get from the airport to Black Hawk?

    Did you do any sight seeing or was your stay limited to the Black Hawk-Central City area?

    What was the traffic in Denver like and on the way to Black Hawk?

    You said you played rated so let us know if you get any room comps in the mail.

  12. #12


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    Jesus Christ uggggg.

  13. #13


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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Zee, here are some non blackjack related questions about your trip.

    It appears you rented a car. Did you rent at the airport or some other place? How much did your total car rental come to including gas? Did you take the train from the airport?

    How long did it take to get from the airport to Black Hawk?

    Did you do any sight seeing or was your stay limited to the Black Hawk-Central City area?

    What was the traffic in Denver like and on the way to Black Hawk?

    You said you played rated so let us know if you get any room comps in the mail.
    I rented a car at the airport. On a previous visit, I had taken a train downtown and rented from there but this time, I was surprised to find a cheap deal via Priceline. For a 5 day rental, I ended up paying $148.70 (including taxes and such). I landed early in the A.M., picked up the car arfound 8:00 a.m. It took me about 50 minutes to get to Idaho Springs (Cheapest safe motel, around 15 mkiles from Blackhawk but because the drive was so spectacular, I did not mind). Its just one exit off I-70 past the Blackhawk exit. The only sight seeing I did was to go up towards MT. Evans (about 20 miles away) but the road was closed near Echo Lake. I had been sightseeing to Colorado many many times before so it was not a priority. The drive back to the airport was tougher because I had a 9:00 a.m. flight and so I left hotel about 5:00 a.m. but due to construction and early morning traffic into Denver, took maybe 75 minutes.

    I saw an AP playing rated and blatantly spreading and I was also hoping for a hotel comp. I actually started anonymously, but that first day was horrible and I was down (ended up losing $1800) so I asked the pit for a dinner comp and he got me a players card. Later, cause of my losing, a host came by. Unfortunately, they had a VIP party f some sort and she said she could not comp me for the weekend but to contact her on Monday, I was leaving on a Tuesday so I just preferred not to ask,

    I dont think any comp will come my way because I seem to have been outed. I do plan on another trip later this summer that will be more for sightseeing and fun, I might drop in while my spouse and son go hiking.

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